Sanding help needed

[La Gib]

Hi all

I quite often make bits and pieces out of pine and use a random orbit sander plus a palm sander to smooth the items of prior to antique or oak waxing. Sometimes I will use a medium oak stain then wax.

But I often get a repeating problem when the wax goes on I'm left with tiny 5mm circle marks left by the sander.

Today I was sanding a table top. Scraped all the glue of and started with the random orbit sander 120 grit. Then after a good sand moved onto 180grit palm sander. Lastly i finished off with 240grit palm sander.

I spent a total of an hour on the top working through the grades.

It's a Metabo 150mm random orbit followed by a Makita palm sander.

Wax on reviled the tiny sander marks again.

If I use sanding sealer will it prevent this? Will it also prevent the wax (Oak) from soaking in?

These marks look bad. How do I avoid this?

Cheers Alan

 

[ro]

Sanding by hand (with the grain of the wood) with a sanding block should remove the circles left by your palm sander.

 

[woodbloke]

Hand sanding is really the only way to get out these tiny swirls of marks left by a sander regardless of how fine the grit size. What does help though, is to have decent extraction on the tool so that all the dust is sucked up and also change the paper regularly. I'ts the little bits of dust that get trapped on the surface and start spinning that cause the problem in the first place - Rob

 

[eggflan]

You say you finish off with the palm sander , if i were you i would finish with the ROS , i also make a lot of pine furniture and found that the random left very few if any marks at all where a palm sander always leaves the wee circles that you are getting :wink:

 

[Chems]

You say you finish off with the palm sander , if i were you i would finish with the ROS , i also make a lot of pine furniture and found that the random left very few if any marks at all where a palm sander always leaves the wee circles that you are getting :wink:

Yeah what mark said. I made that mistake long ago.

 

[goldeneyedmonkey]

+1. I always finish off with the R.O.S plugged into a 'shop vac, turn the button on the back of the handle so that it doesn't do the 'extra orbit' (If that makes sense, and is the model you're talking about). And go over it very evenly, then strike off any sharp edges v.slightly with 240 grit or so hand-paper.

That's my 2 cents_Dan

 

[La Gib]

Thanks guys.

The ROS is so good at stock removal I thought it would be the other way round. Will try that next.

Assuming that I had done the sequence as stated previously. How long would I need to spend hand sanding. I know that.s a "piece of string question" and depends on how hard i press and so on. Just a rough estimate as to how long you would spend.

The table top was 54inches diameter circle

 

[awkwood]

I agree with everyone else only finish wirj ROS, but in the case of a Metabo make sure its set to the smaller of the two orbit settings for final sanding.The button red button on the base.

 

[SP]

I agree. Palm sander (if at all), followed by the ROS.

I also usually go to 320 grit before a finish.

 

[goldeneyedmonkey]

I never bother hand-sanding mate, as long as I go through the grades it should be alright, just strike off the edges and you should be fine I reckon. Though each to his own. (Like said above turn off the extra orbit/ dual orbit setting)

The action of the R.O.S is as it says, the randomness of the marks that it leaves can't really be seen by the human eye if it's done with the right grade.

Happy sanding _Dan

 

[lanemaux]

From the world of the neanders I just would like to give a shout out to the noble scraper. For a smooth finish a well tuned up burr on a simple cabinet scraper is hard to beat. come on over to hand tools posts and search scraper to learn more than you ever wanted to know on the subject of the care and feeding of these deceptively simple tools, at the least it is a fine way to spend a week or two reading. As a rule we tend to obsess a bit.
Cheers , Mike

 

[La Gib]

I have to say, lanemaux.

I did a small bit of scraping, on the table top, using the back of a blade from a large decorators wall scraper. At first I used the sharp side in a scraping motion to remove the eccess glue, then found it was producing results. After that I tried flipping it over.

I'm glad to say that it worked a treat. I think because it was probably punched out by a machine on its initial creation that it had a nice burr.

I tilted it it over a bit curved it in my hand and whilst pushing it away from me was making the nicest of little fuzzy scrapings.

I would like to get a real one but have to learn how to raise the burr.

Very satisfying indeed.

Cheers Alan

 

[tekno.mage]

I've just finished a large furniture job using some very nasty pine and used my cheap variable speed random orbital sander for all the finishing with 120, 180 & 240 grits. The only hand sanding I did was to arris the edges. My job showed no nasty little circular scratch marks after applying the finish.

 

[lanemaux]

Alan , mi amigo , "real" scrapers may be obtained from Lee Valley tools or you could do what I did and go to a discount store (we call them dollar stores in Canuckia) and get a cheapo wood saw. While these cheap monstrosities will not saw wood , or cheese for that matter, they can be broken down into pretty fair scrapers in many cases. And even if the one you get is not much of a scraper the metal can often be used for other things, in my case a handled straight edge for rough work. Who wants to risk scratching a nice ruler when a straight piece of steel will suffice. Or if you prefer , drilled out it makes any number of lipped stops for jigs , providing alignment .
As for raising the burr ,well just burnish with a screwdriver for starters and come to hand tools forum to learn to put the polish to your burr raising skills. Mind the heat buildup when using your new toy though, as you can quite surprise yourself with a burn in short order ... they get hot fairly fast.
Best of luck , Mike

 

[mailee]

There is no doubt that hand scraping produces the best finish to a project but only on hardwoods, it is pants on pine....I know I tried it. LOL. I agreee with the rest that working through the grades with a decent ROS is the best way to go I only hand sand close to the edges and mouldings. 320 grit provides a good starting point for a finish. :wink:

 

[lanemaux]

Must admit that I never used my scrapers on pine. Just thought that they might work if used gently after a rough sanding ... remember I am deep in maple syrup country and often get craft maple from the firewood stack. Sorry if I was not any help.
Sheepishly , Mike

 

[beaver]

Ive found that since chaning to the abranet sanding discs i dont get this problem, as stated earlier because they clear the dust far better than traditional sanding discs

 

[La Gib]

I have finished a project since but not having any discs better that 120 grit for the ROS have finished by hand. Turned out very good

Beaver where do you get your Abernet discs from I will give them a try.

Cheers Alan