sagar sawbench restoration

[wallace]

Hi all, this is the beginning of my old sawbench restoration. I got this about 10 years ago from an old timer that was retireing. It was used primarily for sawing firewood for a few years and left outside with a tarp over it. When I built my workshop it came indoors and got a bit of a clean up. I have since been bitten by the wood butchering bug. This is next in line to be fettled. It has some issues that need sorting like a decent motor and the fence has alot of play.

I spent a few hours takeing the layers of paint off, the original colour was grey/blue like that of wadkins. And then a good layer of hamersh*te and last the black enamel I chucked on.

The blade guard is made from cast ali so when I stripped the paint off there was alot of casting marks.

I spent awhile sanding ready to pollish

Mark

 

[superunknown]

Keeps the pictures coming, love a good restoration project

 

[wallace]

I did quite a bit today. Cleaned the top

I took the guide bar off and a few other bits

The rise and fall mechanism was seized on the bar that supports it, so spent some time takeing that to bits cleaning and putting back on

This is the motor I put in a few years ago, its a decent motor Brook Crompton but only 1.8kw

This is the original switch

Does anyone think I will be able to reuse this, it has the facility to put 3 phase or single. Will it need to be rewired, the wires inside are sheethed in fabric?

I dont think I'll get much done tomorrow I am paying my old work place a visit with an engineer and solicitor, should be fun.
Mark

 

[wallace]

Finished off takeing the saw to bits today, It is possible to rotate the saw on its base which was seized. The base is kept on with three clamps which were bolted and then welded.

The saw rotates on a machined surface which has a small groove to hold grease. I made a right pigs ear of takeing the locking mechanism to bits. I didn't notice some grub screws and ended up useing too much brute force with a hammer. I should be able to fix.

Heres a collection of bits ready to be cleaned and painted

When I took off the switch gear it revealed the original colour, almost identical to wadkin stuff. Also When I was removeing the electrics from inside the conduit clamps were the same as the ones on my wadkin boreing machine.

The place was a mess so have stopped to regroup and muck out abit

Whilst looking for a motor I drove past an engineering firm, The saw has a a worn fence so I thought I'd ask them how much to sort it. £22, well chuffed. He's going to mill it out and insert some bushes. It was one of those places with massive machines and old men with greasy hands. My kind of people.

Mark

 

[9fingers]

I've just had a job using one of those contactors where for some reason, the thermal trip did not trip in the event of an overload.
The result is a motor rewind at over £200 plus all the hassle.

For that reason alone, I would fit a new one.

You talk about changing between single and 3 phase. This will need a change of coil which will be unobtainable. It could be rewound but you have stated elsewhere that electrical things are not your forte.

A new one can be had from Toolstation for £30 ish including a thermal trip relay which needs to be matched to the motor current. I've fitted lots of these and had no problems with them.

If you were desperate to retain authentic looks, it might be possible to use the stop and start buttons on the old one to control a modern starter hidden elsewhere.

hth

Bob

 

[tool613]

Mark

Is the main saw cabinet welded up with plate steel or is it cast? I am wondering if its an early made Bursgreen machine that sagar was making at about that time but built by Bursgreen . I have been looking for clues to this. I find it odd the the Bursgreen logo is the same shape as Sagar. If it is plate steel that will be very interesting and I would date it between 1947 and 1951.

Bob I have a few of those starters on a Stenner and a Brookman that I have not have trip out yet. do you know what the problem may be and is there a remedy?
Can you rewind coils your self and how hard is it? In the past I have just used a control voltage transformer to control the starter coil when changing motor voltage. Is this common to rewind coils in the UK?

looking good so far Mark.

jack

 

[9fingers]

Hi Jack,

Not sure what the problem is with the overload that did not trip. My 'client' is getting the motor rewound and has bought a new starter and overload which I will fit. I plan to use the original stop start button which are remote from the contactor anyway.
The machine is a BAOs12" P/T

I'm sure that you would want to retain the original starters and so would suggest setting up a controlled overload with a dump load and check that the trip still works.

Using a step up/down transformer is an easy way out for voltage changing. Rewinding contactor coils needs a bit of design work and experimentation.

I would put a hundred turns of heavy wire on the coil and power up from a volt or so of AC Measure the voltage in and the voltage developed on the old coil. From this you can estimate the number of turns. Remove the hundred turn coil. Measure the operating current of the old coil. Now you can work out the ampere turns the coil is designed to operate.
Then you can play with turns and current until you get it working with the new voltage. Make sure you keep an eye on the current density in the wire - I try not to exceed 1200 amps per square inch. Normally the coil formers are designed to cope with winding for all the common voltages and it normally fits.
If you are starting out with a damaged coil you can either measure the diameter of the old wire and the volume of the winding space and estimate the turns and current (using 1200 amps per square inch) to get the ampere turns or use a hundred turns, and a low voltage high current variable AC supply (Variac plus filament transformer) and work out the ampere turns for solid reliable operation and then proceed as above.

hth

Bob

 

[wallace]

Hi Jack, yes the main cabinet is steel welded at the corners. The base is cast. All the fittings are the same make as the ones on my other wadkin stuff. On removeing the paint I have found a number 6 stamped on the side of the table and one on a lug of the cabinet where the top is bolted. One curious thing is the table has two sides which were originally filled and painted to cover casting marks and two sides machined and originally unpainted. I wander if it was to extend the top.
Mark

 

[tool613]

Bob thanks. As always your depth of knowledge in these things is remarkable. I do believe i woulds sub that job out to the motor shop as that is beyond me.


Mark one last question. Are the letters MY on the casting?

jack

 

[wallace]

Hi all, I have been busy revamping my workshop. But I did manage to aquire a couple of motors. They are monsters, the one on the left should just say fit in the saw its 5hp. The one on the right is 6hp, I got it to put under the bench for a future project.

Mark

 

[wallace]

I spent some time cleaning the base and makeing reasonably smoothe.

heres the base painted and the cabinet primed.

I had some fun and games installing the motor, it wouldn't go in the top so I had to lift the cabinet over the motor and then lift the motor into place with the hoist.

Mark

 

[MickCheese]

That looks heavy!

Mick

 

[wallace]

Hi Mick, the saw cabinet isn't hugely heavy because its welded plate. It still made my workshop joists groan a bit. The motor weighs about 13 stone. I haven't got a clue how I removed the original motor 12 years ago. I must have been stronger then.
Mark

 

[wallace]

I stripped the switch down tonight.

A bit of nitromors and nice and clean, its made out of ali. I was tempted to pollish it but then you wouldn't see all of the writing

A coat of primer ready to spray tomorrow.

Heres the logo painted and ready to do the background in blue.

 

[wallace]

Did quite a bit today, This is my workshop ready for me spraying.

I spent some time cleaning up the fence ready for paint

 

[wallace]

Nearly finished, one of the problems with the saw is that the fence had a lot a slop. To remedy this I took it to a local engineering firm who drilled and reemed it out so I could insert some glacier bushes.

For some reason when you attach the bracket for the riving knife I have to put two washes underneath the left hand side so that it aligns with the blade.

Everything is almost complete bar the brass measure

Hope everyone enjoyed my little attempts, I tried a piece of wood through it and it was like hot knife and butter. quite scary
Mark

 

[TheTiddles]

That blade does look awfully exposed, sure the riving knife is supposed to be that far off?

I do like the fence on it, looks like some thought went into it

Aidan

 

[wallace]

Hi the riveing knife goes down closer to the blade. I wouldn't leave things like that to use.
Mark

 

[tool613]

Mark

I have really enjoyed following your rebuild of the Sagar. I would like to congrautate you on a fine job there. I have noticed you are get very very good at this. I find it as fun as woodworking and then there is the woodworking with the machines you have restored. It does not get any better than this.

As to the space you filed with washers for the knife. This is proper. The reason is that with different blades there are different plate thicknesses and the knife need to adjust to the center of the saw plate. you also should have a few knifes of different thicknesses for the types of blades you use.
the space is to allow for adjust in all theses cases. my wadkin PK has the same thing. I made shims out of plate brass for the 3 knife plate i have and labeled them.

once again I love this type of thread and hope more get hocked like you have.

keep up the great work on saving some industrial history.


jack
EM

 

[wallace]

Thanks Jack much appreciated, all I need now is an old spindle motor and I'd really like to take one of those oscillating bobbin sanders to bits. Problem is I'm running out of space and I'm pretty skint. One of those job things would help but theres not much work out there. A thing I must check is my spindle speed. I think things are very close to maximum. The motor runs at 2900rpm.
Mark