Router table insert

[Hemsby]

I now have the components for making a Router table with the exception of the insert plate, the only confusion I have is understanding the advantage or disadvantage if any of the insert having a crown or being flat, for example the Trend has a 0.8mm crown “for distortion free cuts” #-o

Can anybody explain please the reason for a choice of a “flat” or “crowned” insert

 

[the_g_ster]

The Trend is essentially plastic, and thus despite the thickness the "crown" allows for the fact a good 2kw router will weigh a bit and slowly level it out.

Many people have long mooted the pros and cons of a entry level plate vs that of the UKJ, or Incra one. Aluminium plates shouldn't deflect through the weight of the router, though a poorly made one still can as remember Ali' is very soft.

I started out with the Trend myself, though found the insert rings were never quite flush and the crown remained. It caused deflection on making raised panel doors and drove me bonkers.

I have since got a Incra one, it's flatter than millpond and the insert rings don't hinder anything.

Some may say otherwise, but save your money, get the Incra or similar. I have now found it's better to buy once and be happy rather than workarounds and save a few quid, as we are all time poor and using a router table means things need to be pretty spot on.

 

[Wizard9999]

The Trend is essentially plastic, and thus despite the thickness the "crown" allows for the fact a good 2kw router will weigh a bit and slowly level it out.

Many people have long mooted the pros and cons of a entry level plate vs that of the UKJ, or Incra one. Aluminium plates shouldn't deflect through the weight of the router, though a poorly made one still can as remember Ali' is very soft.

I started out with the Trend myself, though found the insert rings were never quite flush and the crown remained. It caused deflection on making raised panel doors and drove me bonkers.

I have since got a Incra one, it's flatter than millpond and the insert rings don't hinder anything.

Some may say otherwise, but save your money, get the Incra or similar. I have now found it's better to buy once and be happy rather than workarounds and save a few quid, as we are all time poor and using a router table means things need to be pretty spot on.

I have been gifted a home made router table and all I need is a plate. The existing recesses is a standard US size so the Incra magna-lock is one I am considering, so good to hear you are very happy with it. The other one I would consider is the Woodpecker, but not located a source of just the plate in the UK yet.

Terry.

 

[Iancd]

Sorry if this is hijacking your thread Hemsby, but I have the same issue, so seems better than starting a new one...
I've recently set up a UJK table with the Trend RTI plate and T11 - found the same issue with it as the_g_ster
I contacted Incra as I wasn't sure their plate would fit: it won't. The aperture in the UJK table is 306mm x 230mm and the Incra plate (and Woodpecker) is standard US 9.25 x 11.75 inches = approx. 235 x 298.5mm

Having just read a couple of other threads here including one re Axminster / UJK plates which has put me off their own plates, I'm wondering what choices there are to replace the Trend?
Ideally, I'd spend the sort of money an Incra or Woodpecker would cost, if necessary, to get a very solid, stable and accurately flat plate.
Ian

 

[Glynne]

Just to add a little more information, I have a Rutlands router table that came complete with a phenolic (plastic) insert plate. I use a Trend T9 router (older version of the T11 I think) and the plate does bow under the weight of the router. Despite the corner levelling screws, this can still be an issue if you are routing across the middle of the plate i.e with the fence close to the cutter.
I have also considered the Incra plate and had a really good look and play with one when I was on a course with Peter Sefton. They are absolutely superb - but are a different size to the opening in the Rutlands table so I'm currently trying to work out whether I can modify my table or whether I need to make a new table top (and perhaps utilise the Rutlands fence and tracks).
If you are making your own table, I would definitely go for a top end plate and my preference would be the Incra. If you decide not to for the time being, I would choose a cheaper plate but of the same size so you can always upgrade in the future.

 

[Hemsby]

No problem Hijack away

Although I have still not made the table, but after great deliberation :!: I have decided to order the Incra insert together with the insert template. I will be using a Triton TRA001.

Project to be started in a couple of weeks =D>

Regards

Keith

 

[Iancd]

Thanks Keith,
I'm stuck with the UJK / UK size aperture having spent a lot on the table, so unfortunately Incra is not an option for me - pity they don't make a UK size plate as well.
I saw there was a group buy of bespoke plates made here 3 or 4 years ago, but not more recently...
Hence looking for a UK size plate of Incra / Woodpecker quality
Ian

 

[Woodmonkey]

I've got the Rutland's table with a triton router and the plate has also sagged, so I'm making a new one from some 12mm phenolic which is rock solid, I can't bend it at all. I just need to rout a rebate for the insert rings and drill for the router screws. I have some more if this, if you cover the postage i can send you a piece, it cuts and routs very well.

 

[Glynne]

Hi Woodmonkey,
That would be brilliant thank you.
I'll PM you my address and if you let me know the cost and how you would like to be paid I'll get the funds across.
I'm assuming you simply deepen the rebate that the current plate sits in so as it sits flat in the table?

Glynne

 

[Steve Maskery]

If you decide to buy the Incra, and you want to use a router that adjusts above the table, like the T11 or 625 with a Router Raizer, I suggest that you buy the incra with not mounting holes. The router is skewed underneath by 45 deg and it puts the access hole for the Raizer in line with the fence. If you drill you own holes you can keep the router straight or skew it towards you to keep that access hole, well, accessible.

The plate is also a PITA to fit, because of the 3/4" radius corners.

However, when you have overcome those hurdles you will have a superb RT plate that will last you the rest of your life. You will never go back to phenolic, the difference is chalk and cheese.

I am firmly of the belief that the reason that they make the rings crowned is not because it is designed to give better support, it doesn't, but because they can't make the plastic that accurately flat.

The Incra plate is great, eventually. I don't think that the Woodpecker is available in the UK any more.

I have documented my fit here and in following posts (though you'll have to wade through a load of stuff about photography along the way).

 

[Woodmonkey]

I'm assuming you simply deepen the rebate that the current plate sits in so as it sits flat in the table?

Glynne

You could do that, it seemed easier to me to rebate the underside of the plate, like this

 

[Mike.S]

Just to say I'm another very satisfied user of the Incra magna-lock plate (bought from Peter Sefton's shop).

As regards fitting to the UJK table (cast iron?) is there enough thickness to remove the edge to make it 235mm wide (and/or shave the soft Alu insert plate without messing with the adjustment screw holes)? You could then make up a wooden or metal piece to fill the 6.5mm gap on the length - or even just fill the gap with something like JB Weld.

 

[pcb1962]

I am firmly of the belief that the reason that they make the rings crowned is not because it is designed to give better support, it doesn't, but because they can't make the plastic that accurately flat.

My JessEm ( this one: http://www.rutlands.co.uk/sp+woodworkin ... essem+3100 ) is phenolic, like the Trend, and is perfectly flat with zero sag.

 

[Steve Maskery]

Fair enough, but it wasn't that particular one I had in mind. I do rate the Jessem stuff, actually. I'm thinking of buying the roller-bearing featherboard thingies. But if I do I shall shall buy them when I am in the US, as they are half the price over there. 99.95 Cnadian = £52, whereas Rutlands price is £99.99...

However, most of the phenolic ones I have seen have been the Rousseau and its clones under a variety of brand names I used to have one and I know how poorly they perform compared with a truly flat plate.

Yes, the Incra is expensive, but you will only have to buy it, and do the frustrating job of fitting it, once.

Incidentally, I did email Incra about the difficulty of routing for the corners and the ludicrous orientation of the router mounting holes. I've yet to receive a reply.

 

[Peter Sefton]

Fair enough, but it wasn't that particular one I had in mind. I do rate the Jessem stuff, actually. I'm thinking of buying the roller-bearing featherboard thingies. But if I do I shall shall buy them when I am in the US, as they are half the price over there. 99.95 Cnadian = £52, whereas Rutlands price is £99.99...

However, most of the phenolic ones I have seen have been the Rousseau and its clones under a variety of brand names I used to have one and I know how poorly they perform compared with a truly flat plate.

Yes, the Incra is expensive, but you will only have to buy it, and do the frustrating job of fitting it, once.

Incidentally, I did email Incra about the difficulty of routing for the corners and the ludicrous orientation of the router mounting holes. I've yet to receive a reply.

I have made a template that we stock to rout out the plate aperture to fit into home made router tops (router insert plate template) this does make it a lot easier to make up your own top.

The Incra plates are my personal favourite but we can get both Jessem and Woodpecker if we see enough interest. I have spoken to our technical contact at Incra and asked for a remake of the DW 621/625 plate. Although it's our best plate seller in the grand scheme of American production it just isn't viable to re tool and set up and I don't know of any plans to change this at present. The good news is that after a couple of years of negotiations lots more products are now coming to us as metric!

If you wish to use a Router Raizer your best bet as mentioned is to purchase the undrilled plate and rework it yourself. I have considered us drilling them and have done a few but I never have enough hours in the day! A new team member has just joined us in the tool shop so we will be tying up these loose ends in time or at least supply the drilling templates. If any of you have your drawings please feel free to share them.

Cheers Peter

 

[Steve Maskery]

I have spoken to our technical contact at Incra and asked for a remake of the DW 621/625 plate. Although it's our best plate seller in the grand scheme of American production it just isn't viable to re tool and set up and I don't know of any plans to change this at present.

Well good on you Peter for giving them a bit of earache about the holes. I am a bit surprised that it is so difficult, though. It doesn't seem to me to require any re-tooling at all. Same holes, different co-ordinates, one extra hole for the Raizer and a plug. They must be CNC machined to get the precision and consistency, and that is a very small edit. I used to write post-processors for CNC controllers, so I do have some understanding of what is involved.

No re-tooling, just the political will to make it right. Keep nagging them.

 

[Wizard9999]

The Incra plates are my personal favourite but we can get both Jessem and Woodpecker if we see enough interest. I have spoken to our technical contact at Incra and asked for a remake of the DW 621/625 plate. Although it's our best plate seller in the grand scheme of American production it just isn't viable to re tool and set up and I don't know of any plans to change this at present. The good news is that after a couple of years of negotiations lots more products are now coming to us as metric!

If you wish to use a Router Raizer your best bet as mentioned is to purchase the undrilled plate and rework it yourself. I have considered us drilling them and have done a few but I never have enough hours in the day! A new team member has just joined us in the tool shop so we will be tying up these loose ends in time or at least supply the drilling templates. If any of you have your drawings please feel free to share them.

Cheers Peter

Peter

I did put a call into your team on Friday but I think I missed them calling back, so thought I'd be cheeky and ask my question here. As per the post above, I have been gifted a router table that was used with the Woodpecker lift and I need to buy a replacement plate for it. I fancy the Incra plate and believe they are the same size, however, what I can't seem to confirm anywhere is whether the corner radii are the same on the Incra and the Woodpecker. Can you shed any light on that?

Thanks,
Terry.

 

[Peter Sefton]

The Incra plates are my personal favourite but we can get both Jessem and Woodpecker if we see enough interest. I have spoken to our technical contact at Incra and asked for a remake of the DW 621/625 plate. Although it's our best plate seller in the grand scheme of American production it just isn't viable to re tool and set up and I don't know of any plans to change this at present. The good news is that after a couple of years of negotiations lots more products are now coming to us as metric!

If you wish to use a Router Raizer your best bet as mentioned is to purchase the undrilled plate and rework it yourself. I have considered us drilling them and have done a few but I never have enough hours in the day! A new team member has just joined us in the tool shop so we will be tying up these loose ends in time or at least supply the drilling templates. If any of you have your drawings please feel free to share them.

Cheers Peter

Peter

I did put a call into your team on Friday but I think I missed them calling back, so thought I'd be cheeky and ask my question here. As per the post above, I have been gifted a router table that was used with the Woodpecker lift and I need to buy a replacement plate for it. I fancy the Incra plate and believe they are the same size, however, what I can't seem to confirm anywhere is whether the corner radii are the same on the Incra and the Woodpecker. Can you shed any light on that?

Thanks,
Terry.

Terry

No problem asking the question on here.

I haven't tried dropping a Woodpecker into one of our Incra tables or vice versa but the two companies work very closely together and do try to make most parts interchangeable. I have just found this info on the Incra site which might be your answer.

This 3/4"- thick MDF template is machined on computerized equipment to produce a perfect fitting table opening for 9-1/4" x 11-3/4" INCRA or Woodpeckers router lifts and router mounting plates. The generous border allows it to be clamped into position on all but the largest router tables, and there's plenty of surface area for double-sided tape, if you prefer. Note: This template will not work for the 8-1/4" wide plate used on Rockler/INCRA Mast-R-Lift II.

Our Incra plates are as below (info copied from our site)

INCRA's 3/8" solid aluminum mounting plates are the new standard for achieving perfect cutting results at your router table. Precision-machined aircraft grade aluminum and bullet proof hard anodized plating translate to easy glide for your workpiece. While the 3/8" thickness is robust enough for the heaviest of routers on the market today. Designed for and included with every INCRA Router table top, these plates will fit the standard 9-1/4" x 11-3/4" recess in most other router table tops as well.

Ten fine thread plate-leveling screws provide extreme control in leveling the plate to your table and rock solid support at any position around the plate. A simple quarter turn of the corner mounted Cam-Lock fastener securely locks the plate in the router table's recess.

All of INCRA's aluminum mounting plates feature the exclusive MagnaLOCK magnetic throat plate system. Changing any of the included throat plates is a snap with the Magna Lock System. Just drop in the selected plate. The high energy, rare-earth magnets hold the plate secure and perfectly flush every time.

I would say it should fit your table, but I can't say for certain as I haven't seen your table and how it has been routed out.

If it sounds like the right fit you can order it and if it isn't what you are looking for just send it back in saleable condition and we will refund your card, or if you are free come to our open day next month and try it out for yourself.

I hope this helps, cheers Peter

 

[Steve Maskery]

Now that is what I call Customer Service. On a Sunday, too.
Can you argue with that?

S

 

[Wizard9999]

I would say it should fit your table, but I can't say for certain as I haven't seen your table and how it has been routed out.

If it sounds like the right fit you can order it and if it isn't what you are looking for just send it back in saleable condition and we will refund your card, or if you are free come to our open day next month and try it out for yourself.

I hope this helps, cheers Peter

Peter

Brilliant, thank you (yes Steve 100% brilliant service). I'll order tomorrow when I have a bit more time as I want to see if there is anything else I want as well as the plate.

I wish I could make the open day, but I am going to a wedding that day. As it happens I did suggest the groom should change the date so I could make the open day, but apparently that is not an option.

Thanks again,
Terry.