Robert Sorby ProEdge Sharpening System

[okeydokey]

Hi Folks
I'm sure this has been discussed previously but I cant find where/or how best to search perhaps?
I need to sharpen the occasional chisel/gouge/plane iron and whathaveyou and have spent some time with various oilstones,wet and dry paper stuck to glass and borrowed a Fox Whetstone system (which is a cheap version of a Tormek Whetstone) to see if thats better (seems very slow so far).
If anyone has the ProEdge and would like to share their thought on it I would love to hear from you.
cheers

 

[CHJ]

If you are talking about final finish and polishing the main problem I see is the heat generated. (where the wet grinders score)

Trizact A30 (P800 grit) belts are the finest I have and used on blades and the main risk is the heating of a fine cutting edge, needs very light pressure and cutting dwell time.

 

[okeydokey]

Thanks Chas very useful
Its partly the speed as well - the water wheels seem to take ages and if you had to reshape instead of a light touching up it must take an eternity

 

[CHJ]

Pro edge ideal for reshaping because of coarser grit availability as long as you take care with heat. (60 grit down to 120 grit remove metal in short order) It's the fine cutting edge or thin knife blade as you go to the finer grits that's problematical because of the lack of material volume to conduct the heat generated with the finer grits.

At least that's my experience, needs a light touch and as short a dwell time as possible.

 

[Doug B]

I have the A16 & A6 belts for the proedge 1200 & 3000 grit respectively & these give a very sharp edge.

 

[AJB Temple]

I use the pro edge. I have a Tormek. For my extensive range of Japanese kitchen knives I have Japanese Waterstones and natural stones. Also have some diamond sharpeners. And rotary grindstones.

For tools, such as chisels, plane irons, turning tools, workshop knives etc I use the pro edge 99% of the time. It is quick, gives a flat grind and is dead easy to set the angles. Belt change takes seconds. I typically sharpen two or three things at the same time, this way heat build up is not an issue. You will only ruin an edge if you are heavy handed and unobservant. I find easy to set a bevel and a micro bevel if I want.

The system is quick and clean. Hence I use it a lot and my tools are always sharp. The Tormek is redundant for me. I should sell it. My advice is buy the pro edge and a small range of belts and never look back.

 

[woodbloke66]

Hi Folks
I'm sure this has been discussed previously but I cant find where/or how best to search perhaps?
I need to sharpen the occasional chisel/gouge/plane iron and whathaveyou and have spent some time with various oilstones,wet and dry paper stuck to glass and borrowed a Fox Whetstone system (which is a cheap version of a Tormek Whetstone) to see if thats better (seems very slow so far).
If anyone has the ProEdge and would like to share their thought on it I would love to hear from you.
cheers

I've had a ProEdge and they're not too bad, with very obvious limitations once you start to use it. However, if I were to go for another machine of this sort....

...I'd bide my time and see what this one was like - Rob

 

[custard]

I used to have a Tormek, but I sold it a few years ago and replaced it with a Pro-Edge. I've also got a fair bit of experience of using traditional grinding wheels in various workshops.

The Tormek jig system delivers accurate and repeatable results across a wide range of tools. But the main problem is that the Tormek is pretty slow, I tried upgrading to the "black" wheel for use with A2 steel, but it made hardly any difference. When I say slow, I mean S-L-O-W! A major re-grind on a thick A2 iron could easily take twenty minutes or more. Add in the extra time taken with grading and it's not really practical for a commercial environment.

This is my current sharpening set up.

A Pro-Edge for grinding, diamond stones for sharpening, "scary sharp" papers on a granite block for honing. I've no interest in debating different sharpening systems, but it's worth mentioning that you'll find something similar to this in many professional workshops.

I got the Pro-Edge because it's compatible with the main Tormek jigs that I used, but it can remove metal much, much faster.

Does it burn the tools? Well, unlike the Tormek, that's a possibility. But in reality it's not a meaningful problem. The vast majority of grindings, apart from dealing with the occasional nicked edge, mean you don't actually grind to the very edge. You normally grind to within one mill of the edge, which means burning, on a wheel or on a belt, is simply not an issue. On the rare occasions when you need to grind right to the edge then I find the Pro-Edge runs a lot cooler than almost all grinding wheels, so with just a moderate amount of care the tool isn't blued. I once used a grinder in a workshop that had fitted it with a CBN wheel. That ran equally cool to the Pro-Edge, but I believe they had a few problems truing up the wheel (although once trued it ran perfectly with no need for subsequent attention) and of course high tech wheels like that are fairly expensive. I think a CBN grinder and a Pro-Edge are both viable alternatives, it really comes down to if you want a flat grind or a hollow grind, which in turn is pretty much a personal choice. I know excellent craftsmen in both camps, so whatever you choose you'll be in good company!

Belt changes on the Pro-Edge take under a minute, and give you a huge range of grits and materials. I tend to stick to a coarse ceramic belt, but very occasionally I'll use the tri-act belts which go to something like 3000 grit.

Another feature of the Pro-Edge is the excellent angle setting arrangement, the whole machine is particularly sturdy, but the angle setting arrangement is genuinely industrial quality and is built to withstand years of use and abuse in a commercial environment.

If you're ever in the South Hampshire/New Forest area and want to have a play with a Pro-Edge drop me a PM and you're welcome to drop by the workshop.

 

[Chris152]

very obvious limitations once you start to use it.

What are those Rob? I've had mine several months (used for chisels, planes and turning tools) and found none.

 

[woodbloke66]

very obvious limitations once you start to use it.

What are those Rob? I've had mine several months (used for chisels, planes and turning tools) and found none.

I had a ProEdge for about a year and without doubt, it's a very good, entirely UK made (none of yer Chiwanese imported rubbish ) which is built in the best traditions of 'old skool' British engineering...in fact the guys building them probably build Challenger tanks as well at the weekend :lol:
For the most part, it does a great job on turning tools made from HSS, where the build of of heat isn't too much of an issue (although it's probably wise to keep the build of heat in this sort of steel under control).

For me and this is a personal issue and others will unquestionably disagree, the big failing is that it fails miserably to accurately (with the emphasis on 'accurate') grind plane and chisel blades, principally because a) it removes steel too quickly (with the possible build of of heat and resulting degradation of the steel's temper) and b) the jig(s) is so poorly engineered (in contrast to the rest of the machine) that the old USSR could probably do a better job in a tractor factory in the Urals.

When I grind a plane or chisel blade, I like to get it dead square and leave just the merest smidgeon of the old honed bevel; probably 0.25mm or so which is easy to see if the bevel is painted with a red permanent marker before work starts. No matter how hard I tried (and it may have been down to my cack-handidness with the machine) I found it impossible to re-grind an accurate bevel to my satisfaction.

As most of my stuff is cabinet work, grinding plane and chisel blades is my primary concern and after about a year of fruitless and frustrating experimentation, I went back to a Tormek, which as Custard accurately mentions, is much slower, but ultimately more accurate. One of the issues with the Tormek is that the wheel glazes over remarkably quickly which drastically reduces the effectiveness of the cut; if it's kept pristine and fresh using the diamond dresser, it does actually cut much quicker (though not as fast as the PE).

That said, the PE is great for removing large amounts of HSS steel for say, re-shaping the profile of a turning tool whereas you'd be there till Christmas on a Tormek. For me as a hobbyist, the time issue isn't critical and I personally much prefer the Tormek, safe in the knowledge that all the steel (no matter what the denomination) in contact with the wheel is water cooled.

I have no idea whatsoever what the new Ax machine is like but it certainly won't be entirely UK made; it will though, as far as I'm aware, be able to use all the existing Tormek jigs which will circumvent the poor quality jigs currently on offer with the ProEdge. As ever with these sorts of things, it's horses for dooberies and what suits one definitely won't suit another. My two Euros though...not that they're worth much and even less next year :lol: - Rob

 

[okeydokey]

Many thanks all, particularly Custard for his in depth info.
Look forward to any more thoughts, btw does anyone else make a similar belt machine?
cheers
Paul

 

[Noho12C]

Do any of you have also difficulties to have a square edge with the ProEdge ? (As stated by woodbloke66)

Was waiting for the Axminster one before pulling the trigger, but not sure it will bring much more than the PE.

Sent from my VKY-L09 using Tapatalk

 

[Buckeye]

I notice the Axminster version is on their website now. Looks like the pro edge but uses Tormek style jigs

 

[Noho12C]

Indeed, it is since yesterday. It has a variable speed (which i guess can be useful if you you want to make your final edge on it) and a bit more power (575 Vs 370ish for the PE)

Sent from my VKY-L09 using Tapatalk

 

[Jacob]

A "dead square" edge is difficult to achieve with most systems but luckily it's not particularly necessary. In fact for a plane it's a major inconvenience - a camber is more or less essential.
The only exception perhaps a shoulder plane which is the only 'precision' plane - but easy to grind/hone entirely by hand.
The Proedge is basically a variant of a simple linisher - it's not a 'system' but it's a neat design and nice to use.
There are cheaper linishers out there which will do just about as well. The axminster offering looks like a pointless and uber expensive gadget to me. Yet another trap for the unwary beginner! :roll:

 

[E-wan]

Hi

I would be interested if anybody could be kind enough to post a photograph or two of the cheek that comes with the RS pro Edge and explain a little more about how it works to hold the tools at the correct angle. Looking at the website it seems that they sell lots of extra sharpening jigs making it hard to tell what comes with the machine.

Is it possible to use the pro Edge to grind cambers?

Also for those of you who do use it regularly how do you avoid overheating the steel of the tool of you are a sharpening.



Thanks

Ewan

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

 

[Jacob]

Hi

I would be interested if anybody could be kind enough to post a photograph or two of the cheek that comes with the RS pro Edge and explain a little more about how it works to hold the tools at the correct angle.

It doesn't hold the tool - you just rest it on it like any tool rest, but set at the angle you choose.

Looking at the website it seems that they sell lots of extra sharpening jigs making it hard to tell what comes with the machine.

You don't need any of them

Is it possible to use the pro Edge to grind cambers?

yes very easy freehand. Basically it's a freehand machine with a tilting table to help.

Also for those of you who do use it regularly how do you avoid overheating the steel of the tool of you are a sharpening.

Gentle pressure, on and off, especially if getting close to the edge and thin metal

 

[E-wan]

Hi

I would be interested if anybody could be kind enough to post a photograph or two of the cheek that comes with the RS pro Edge and explain a little more about how it works to hold the tools at the correct angle.

It doesn't hold the tool - you just rest it on it like any tool rest, but set at the angle you choose.

Looking at the website it seems that they sell lots of extra sharpening jigs making it hard to tell what comes with the machine.

You don't need any of them

Is it possible to use the pro Edge to grind cambers?

yes very easy freehand. Basically it's a freehand machine with a tilting table to help.

Also for those of you who do use it regularly how do you avoid overheating the steel of the tool of you are a sharpening.

Gentle pressure, on and off, especially if getting close to the edge and thin metal

Thanks

Bit expensive I'm just going to use it for woodworking tools but if I could also used to sharpen knives and axes I'll be thinking about it.

Ewan

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

 

[Chris152]

Looking at the website it seems that they sell lots of extra sharpening jigs making it hard to tell what comes with the machine.

You don't need any of them

Is it possible to use the pro Edge to grind cambers?

yes very easy freehand. Basically it's a freehand machine with a tilting table to help.

Ewan - I find that if I want to get the right shape to turning gouges I need to use the jigs - they're good and I can put an accurate edge on a gouge in a few seconds, and grind to a new shape in not many minutes. I sharpen knives freehand and haven't tried an axe but I guess it'd be pretty much the same? I bought the deluxe-plus version (take a look at Yandles' site) that came with the tilting table, gouge jig (useful for aligning chisels at right angles to the belt), fingernail and skew jig for turning tools. I'm very much a learner and find it to be an accurate and very easy to use piece of kit.

 

[woodbloke66]

A "dead square" edge is difficult to achieve with most systems but luckily it's not particularly necessary. In fact for a plane it's a major inconvenience - a camber is more or less essential.
The only exception perhaps a shoulder plane which is the only 'precision' plane - but easy to grind/hone entirely by hand.
The Proedge is basically a variant of a simple linisher - it's not a 'system' but it's a neat design and nice to use.
There are cheaper linishers out there which will do just about as well. The axminster offering looks like a pointless and uber expensive gadget to me. Yet another trap for the unwary beginner! :roll:

Without getting into another utterly pointless 'discussion' Jacob :lol: I've used low angle Veritas planes now for over a decade and it's practically impossible to produce a cambered edge where the blade sits at a mere 12deg. I think most users of low angle planes grind them straight and square then knock off the corners to get rid of the 'tram lines'; I certainly do and have never had any problems by not using a cambered blade.
The PE is a decent machine apart from it's main failing which is the appalling quality of the jigs supplied to fit it. The new Ax machine is an unknown quantity at the moment and without first hand knowledge it's difficult to say whether it's any better or worse than the PE. Certainly it's more expensive than the PE and I suspect that it's better too :wink: - Rob