Rip cut bowsaws versus almost all other saws

[Carl P]

While I'm not exactly new to woodworking, it is only recently I've been trying to 'do it properly' as it were. I've just been reading "The Seven Essentials of Woodworking" by Anthony Guidice, in it he recommends bowsaws over almost all other saws, and maintains there is no need for crosscut teeth except for green wood - just wondered whether anyone who has had experience of using bowsaws and panel/backsaws has anything to say on the matter, before I part with any cash. He also has a photo of different lengths of cut in the same piece of wood for ten strokes, showing the bowsaw cuts more per stroke.

Cheers,

Carl

 

[János]

Hello,

Framesaws are very useful and practical tools. The very thin (0,4-0,8 mm) blades cut faster and more efficiently, than the thick blades of large handsaws. They are easier to sharpen, as the teeth are filed straight across, because sloping gullets and fleam does not affect/improve the cutting performance of these thin blades.

Have a nice day,

János

 

[Carl P]

Thankyou for your reply Janos, a very helpful and concise explanation not all of which was covered in the book. If I may say so, I always enjoy reading your contributions as they are unfailingly helpful and courteous, unfortunately something not always adhered to by all forum contributors,

Thanks again,

Carl

 

[Cheshirechappie]

There is a logic supporting the bow-saw design over the Western handsaw, which is that since the blade is always kept in tension, and does not have to support itself against cutting forces, it can be thinner than a handsaw. However, on long cuts, the bow frame could be more inclined to foul the work when a handsaw would not, so both designs have their advantages.

I've never used a frame saw, except for the traditional 'turning saw' or bowsaw (which is a very light and controllable tool) so I can't offer the insights that Janos does, but I do know that many woodworkers, especially those of European background, use them a lot and like them. I suspect that if you can get hold of some blades, making frames to hold them would be a reasonably straightforward task, so you could kit yourself out with saws far more cheaply than buying even secondhand handsaws and backsaws.

 

[Scouse]

Another advantage of a framesaw over a western rip saw, when it comes to deep ripping and resawing, is the fact that they tend not to bind in the cut as western rip saws are prone to do as the wood grips the saw plate, again due to the thin blade (I would guess the tension also may help here).

 

[Tinbasher]

I worked with an old fellow who used his bow saw for everything barring hammering in nails!

He could turn out perfectly functional lap joints in framing and heavy green wood.

 

[Carl P]

Thanks for all the input, without it I would probably have let it slide but I will definitely investigate it further now,

Cheerio,

Carl

 

[Sheffield Tony]

To counterbalance, the disadantages are that the thinner blade twists easily, and the lack of depth to the blade means it doesn't naturally track nice and straight. Or maybe that's just when I use them :?

 

[J_SAMa]

Hi Carl,
Well, I'm relatively new to woodworking by hand too, but here's my take on this:
I've never used a bowsaw before so don't take my words too seriously... But the theory's that bowsaw blades are narrower and thinner so they undergo less friction than handsaws and therefore saw faster. You might find it harder to saw straight with such a narrow blade though (with a wider handsaw, the rest of the saw would help guide the business end of the saw in the kerf).
An obvious advantage is that bowsaws can be used on the pull stroke. This helps keep the saw in tension (that's the theory with Japanese saws too).

Still, I've only used hansaws and am happy with them. I don't find myself in any need of bowsaws or Japanese saws.

Sam

 

[barkwindjammer]

Hi Carl,
Well, I'm relatively new to woodworking by hand too, but here's my take on this:
I've never used a bowsaw before so don't take my words too seriously... But the theory's that bowsaw blades are narrower and thinner so they undergo less friction than handsaws and therefore saw faster. You might find it harder to saw straight with such a narrow blade though (with a wider handsaw, the rest of the saw would help guide the business end of the saw in the kerf).
An obvious advantage is that bowsaws can be used on the pull stroke. This helps keep the saw in tension (that's the theory with Japanese saws too).

Still, I've only used hansaws and am happy with them. I don't find myself in any need of bowsaws or Japanese saws.

Sam

Hi Carl,


A thin bow blade IS easy to turn in a cut, with a wider 'western' handsaw, like turning a tanker ? super-tanker ?, once these blades go 'off course' they go off course

 

[denboy]

I bought a Danish bowsaw/ framesaw by mail order many years ago after reading Tage Frid Teaches Wooworking Book 1, in which he says much the same about only green wood needing crosscut teeth, and about speed.
However, what in the UK we call a bowsaw is not the same- ours are for cutting shapes and have a very narrow blade, more like a coping saw; what the Europeans and Americans mean seems be the frame saw with a blade about 40mm deep. I did as he suggested and re-filed the teeth to rip. In the days before the modern hardpoint saws, with their ability to rip and crosscut very efficiently, it was a useful tool to have for cuttting the cheeks of large-ish tenons, for which a backsaw was too slow and a large ripsaw too clumsy. However, I never developed the skill to cut dovetails. It is much easier to steer than a traditional saw because of the tautness and relative narrowness of the blade, and it is fast because the usable length of the blade is large, so you can use long powerful strokes. It can be awkward, however, when long ripping, when the frame gets in the way, and you always have to be aware of the blade's tendency to twist.
There are very good photos of the European/ American bowsaw in use, both in Frid's book and in articles by Frank Klausz in back numbers of Fine Woodworking- references on request.

 

[bugbear]

An obvious advantage is that bowsaws can be used on the pull stroke. This helps keep the saw in tension

With a framesaw the blade is under tension on both pull and push strokes - that's rather the point of the frame.

BugBear

 

[Carl P]

Thanks for all the replies, it's helped a lot - Janos very nicely corrected me by saying frame saw, bow saw has rather more specific implications in English - what I'm interested in (I now realise) is a frame saw with quite a wide blade (1 - 2") and 2 - 3' long, I've googled and not come up with anything in the UK. I could use mitre saw blades but the lowest tpi I can find is 14 which is no good for general sawing. I will probably have to buy blades and make the frame to save money, so any suggestions as to where I can source these would be most appreciated. I'll start another thread for this, but thanks once again for everyones input, it's really helped to clarify my thoughts,

Cheerio,

Carl

 

[Richard T]

Hi Carl - probably quite a long shot but I found out that Dakin Flathers still make hand-file able rip band saw blade. (I was asking about 1" wide at the time but maybe they make 2") This might work out as a cheaper source.

Trouble is DF will not talk to anyone other than stockists so probably best to find and ask a retailer.

On a different note I have a large old wooden frame saw that I don't use (would need a blade) that you would be welcome to if you are ever around Solihull way.

 

[János]

Hello,

Dear Carl, thank you for your compliments.
In the heyday of these saws, blades for them were produced in a wide variety of types and sizes, from 300 mm to 1100 mm, but nowadays it is much harder to buy them. The emergence of cheap electric saws has killed the market... As an alternative, it is quite easy to make a blade from a piece of bandsaw blade: a flat file, a 4mm HSS drill bit, and a hacksaw are all you need to accomplish the task.

These are frame saw blades still on offer. The variety is small.

Have a nice day,

János

 

[Corneel]

finetools.de still have a (small) selection of framesaws and blades. Shipping within the EU isn't very expensive.

http://www.fine-tools.com/gestell.htm