Research Project Old English Saw

[Mittlefehldt]

I went to a local antique store today to purchase a wooden desk for my shop for a great price, but that is not the real story here.

The store had a saw he just got in for $10. a rip saw roughly 5 or 6 points per inch and some set on it. In real nice shape except that two of the five small brass split saw nuts were missing. The maker was Groves and Sons Sheffield.

I have so far learned that the firm existed in the mid nineteenth century but not how long it was there before 1850 or after 1865, anyone have a handy reference for british saw makers that could furnish a bit more information, I will keep checking but I think that despite a veritable plethora of rip saws in my shop, I might want to pick that one up to.

The name is stamped into the blade not etched.

 

[DomValente]

ALF

 

[MikeW]

Groves, Richard 1787-c1815
Groves & Son, Richard 1817-1821 <--note the single 'Son'
Groves & Sons, Richard 1822-1911

Gonna skip the addresses...info from Schaeffer & McConnel's book Hand-Saw Makers of Britain.

Alf probably will have more info.

Take care, Mike

 

[Mittlefehldt]

Thanks Mike I knew I could rely on you. You dont happen to know a source for brass split saw nuts do you by any chance?

 

[MrJay]

The Norse Woodsmith can help with saw nuts.
(heehee)

 

[dunbarhamlin]

Nuts available from:
Dieter Schmid http://www.fine-tools.com/fuchs.htm (at the bottom of the page)
Workshop Heaven http://www.workshopheaven.com (If the url doesn't work, look under knife making supplies)
Rutlands http://www.rutlands.co.uk/cgi-bin/psProdDet.cgi/RL752
TFWW Tools for Working Wood

Bear in mind that these won't necessarily fit an existing saw.

HTH
Steve

 

[Mittlefehldt]

Thanks Mr. Jay, I actually already thought of him and may have to resort to his site as the saw nuts are somewhat smaller than what is on offer ready made.

Thanks also dunbarhamlin for those links and the trouble you went to much appreciated.

Seems that the nuts on offer are half inch heads with quarter inch shanks, wheras this fella has nuts that are 7 16ths with 3 16ths shank, so of course just a little off.

Yes I bought it this morning could not stand the thought if it being in such uncouth company in the shop when I have such nice saws here. Cost the equivalent of 4.68 GBP as per yesterdays Bank Of Canada exchange rate.(is that a gloat?)

It is the third name Mike mentioned above Grove and SonS so 1821-1911.
The saw is 26 inches, 5 points per inch rip cut, the blade is 8 inches wide at the handle, and it has a rounded corner at the end with a nib a short ways up the blades back.

Warrented cast steel haphazardly stamped in the blade as well as a sort of stylized crown with the capitalized letters beneath it, U.S.E.

I will do pictures over the next day or so.

 

[Alf]

Can't add a lot, except the 1911 date is simply the last definite dates Don and Erv had (from a directory I think?). That's why so many makers apparently bit the dust in 1911 according to their book! :lol:

Cheers, Alf

 

[MrJay]

wheras this fella has nuts that are 7 16ths with 3 16ths shank, so of course just a little off.

teehee

I will do pictures over the next day or so.

:shock:

Mine has 'Thin to the Back' vertically etched with swirls and stuff on the bladey bit just before the handley bit. It's my favorite rip say by a country mile.