Replacement Record No3 lever cap

[GraemeD]

Has anyone got any suggestions as to where I could get hold of a replacement lever cap for an old Record No3 plane?

I recently refurbished an old No3, including a repaint and lapping the sole. It cuts so sweetly now....arguably my nicest plane to use. However, the lever cap is damaged; the spring steel strip at the back has been mangled at some time in its life, and so doesn't sit properly against the iron underneath. I'm thinking I could have a go at fixing it, stretching my metalwork abilities to the limits.....though I'm not sure how well it would come out!

Before I try this, I just wondered if anyone knew of anywhere that sold these kinds of spares....I've tried Ebay (plenty of nice shiny Stanley ones), and emailed a couple of old tool suppliers on the web, but so far, nothing.

Any thoughts much appreciated!

Graeme

 

[jimi43]

There are usually plenty on fleabay if you look around for a while

Cheers

Jim

 

[Vann]

I too have a Record No.03 that needs a cap iron.

Stanley have a website (US based) that lists their cap irons ($US15 IIRC), but I wonder if Record (Irwin) sell spare parts. A new one would probably be made in China*, but what the heck, it should still hold down the irons okay.

I suppose I could just trawl fleabay for a plane for parts. However, I know myself well enough to know that unless I buy a completely stuffed plane, I'll want to do it up, and then I'll still be a lever-cap short.

I've noticed that second hand parts dealers usually want more for a part than you'd pay for a whole plane on fleabay.

What a dilemma..... :roll:

Cheers, Vann.

edit: *just rembered Record (Irwin) no longer make a No.03, so, if they stock spare No.03 lever-caps, they'll be English made.

 

[bugbear]

I should note that #3's are MUCH rarer than #4 and #5, and Records are more sought after than Stanleys.

I'm talking car boot here, which is (of course) where the cheapest things come from (*)

BugBear

(* possibly excluding Record #4's in boxes as per MickCheese)

 

[GraemeD]

Thanks for the thoughts guys....I think the relative rarity of the Record No3 is meaning spares are even harder to come by. I was surprised, but I have had a "watch" on Ebay for a few months now, and nothing suitable has come up. No4 or 5, no problem....I suppose it would be the same for a No7!

Vann, I agree with you....I could pick up another No3 and use it for bits, but that just puts the problem onto another plane! Interesting thought about contacting Irwin....not thought of that (I guess I always think Record is no longer around!). I'll give it a go; they may have old stock.

The alternative is that I have a go at fixing up the lever cap I already have. I suppose so long as it works, it doesn't have to look pretty, and would allow me to use the plane whilst Ebay came up with the goods.....

Cheers
Graeme

 

[Paul Chapman]

You could try 'phoning Pennyfarthing Tools - they often have lots of bits and pieces from planes http://www.pennyfarthingtools.co.uk/index.htm

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[GraemeD]

Thanks for the suggestion Paul....just tried, but nothing at the moment! Still awaiting some kind of response from Irwin.....

Graeme

 

[xy mosian]

GraemeD, You wrote "I suppose so long as it works, it doesn't have to look pretty, and would allow me to use the plane whilst Ebay came up with the goods..... ".

If it is buggered then could you do away with the lever arrangement and replace it with a clamping screw? I'm trying to find a picture, or reference to recent threads about plane making, there have been several.

Of course it depends upon what tooling you have but either a captive nut, brazed or welded in place of the lever, or a threaded hole as far from the blade as possible.

HTH
xy

 

[GraemeD]

Funny you should say that, xy.....something like that had crossed my mind. Presumably I would remove the knackered spring steel strip from the back, cut off the lever, and maybe drill a hole through the casting, as you say as far from the blade end as possible. Then use some kind of thumb screw to apply the pressure.

Is that what you had in mind? Kind of like what infill planes use? As you say, it may not be pretty, but it could work.

My metalwork capabilities are present but limited....I have saws and files etc. and a set of metric taps! I guess it should be possible with these. The issue would be the thumbscrew, but I've seen people on the 'net assemble these from various items in the past.

Mmm, you got me thinking. Thanks xy!

Graeme

PS. Just heard back from Irwin....no stock remaining. They suggested I try Ray Iles, which is probably not a bad idea.......

 

[Paul Chapman]

The issue would be the thumbscrew

Philly does some nice screws which would be suitable http://www.phillyplanes.co.uk/index.php ... &Itemid=16

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Vann]

PS. Just heard back from Irwin....no stock remaining.

Damn. I was going to try them too.

With regard to fitting a screw to the end of your existing lever cap: if it's of any help I've got a "modern" Record lever cap on an SP4 (cheap and nasty No.4). The brass machine screw they use measures just under 10mm dia. (3/8" BSW?) and 28mm long (18mm over the thread - 10mm thick head), while the knurled head is 19.5 (3/4") dia. The end of the thread has a chamfer, so that there's a 4mm dia. flat remaining to contact the cap-iron.

Philly's M8 x 22mm dia. screw is probably the nearest.

Of course this doesn't help me as I have no lever cap for my #03 to modify...

Cheers, Vann.

Edit: attempted to clarify dimensions (probably unsuccessfully )

 

[xy mosian]

That's it Infill Plane cap.

Of course there is another option, perhaps.

Is the lever cap on a number 4 sufficiently similar to that on a number 3 to allow modification? I was wondering if it would be merely a matter of reducing the width. I have never seen a #3 in the flesh so I would have to do all the comparisons theoretically. If anyone has a #3 and a #4 then side by side comparison would soon give the answer. Of course that all depends on whether you have access to a redundant #4.

xy

 

[jimi43]

If you are just looking for something to tide you over perhaps just a Stanley one would do?

Stanley No.3 cap on FleaBay

There is also a whole Record one here

Cheers

Jim

 

[GraemeD]

Blimey....an avalanche of ideas!

Thanks for the pointer to Philly's knurled screws, Paul....I had no idea he offered those, so that is very useful information. If I went this way, I'd probably try it first with a caphead bolt to prove the point, and then order one of those from Philly once it proved it worked.

Your details on the modern Record lever cap screw are also useful, Vann, as this qualifies the choice of screw size to use. Sounds like the larger the better in many ways.....I do have M8 and M10 taps available, so something like this seems to be appropriate.

I was wondering what the end of the screw should look like. I have a Veritas BU smoother with a lever cap screw, and it has a loose "foot" attached to the end of the screw.....but then that is Veritas! I guess the screw touches the blade at approx. 90 degrees, so maybe nothing special is needed here. The Veritas foot just spreads the load a bit perhaps.

As for xy's idea, this got me thinking! I do happen to have a gaffe No4 (don't worry Vann.....the casting is broken, so it really can't be salvaged!!). I matched up the lever cap to the No3 and discovered something interesting.

The No3 has a 44mm blade, and the No2 has a 50mm blade, and the lever caps differ by about 6mm. Narrowing a No4 cap by 3mm on each side could work....the cast webs on the underside are ever so slightly wider than this.

However, the plane looks like it would accommodate up to a 48mm wide lever cap, slightly overhanging the sides of the blade. removing 1mm off each side of the lever cap seems eminently possible, and actually wouldn't look too wrong (the "Record" logo is bigger on the No4 cap, and would get a bit too close to the edge if 6mm is removed....not so with 2mm).

So, I reckon this may be the easiest way forwards.....nice idea xy!

Jims links to Ebay are an alternative of course....I had spotted the Stanley one (very shiny!). I hadn't seen the rusty No3. Thanks Jim.

So, maybe a little metal butchery is on the agenda this weekend. Thanks for all the ideas and thoughts guys!

Cheers
Graeme

 

[xy mosian]

Sometimes a seamingly simple job just blossoms into to too many choices.

I hadn't thought about the webs on the cap, actually forgotten about them is more accurate. However it looks as if you are on the brink of a solution one way or another.

xy

 

[GraemeD]

Yes....just shows what an inspirational bunch of guys we have out there

Whilst contemplating the lever cap screw thoughts, I also wondered about making a brand new lever cap out of some brass plate. Couple that with one of Philly's thumbscrews, and it could actually look pretty smart.

I'm going to mull some more and then have a crack at the weekend....assuming I'm allowed some 'shop time.....

Thanks again for all your input. I'll post pics once I have a solution....assuming it doesn't look too ropey!

Cheers
Graeme

 

[Vann]

There is also a whole Record one here

"No bids outside UK" I guess that excludes me then

Cheers, Vann.

 

[Racers]

Hi, Graeme

I have just found a spare Record No3 lever cap in the garage, its in reasonable condition. Pm me if you want it.

Pete

 

[OldSchoolTools]

Hi to you all,

I have lots of spare parts and am sure I will have number 3 lever caps but would have to check, problem at the moment is I am away from home till next weekend, should you still need one let me know.

Gary

 

[jimi43]

There is also a whole Record one here

"No bids outside UK" I guess that excludes me then

Cheers, Vann.

Yeh Vann...that really gets on my nerves when people insist on that even when buyers offer to pay full postage. I mean, its not as if you are in Nigeria or some other scam infested hell hole!

I am happy to receive any item you win for you and post on should you need something mate.

Jim