Reduced Stile Gunstock Doors

[pollys13]

Hi all,
Would a precision mitre gauge on a bandsaw be suitable for making some of the following cuts?
See attached photos.
Cheers.

 

[custard]

If you mean straight off a bandsaw then probably not, even with a meat & fish blade I doubt the cut would be good enough. After all a gunstock is a prestige joint, making it gappy or with a thick glue line would defeat the object.

There'll be many alternative ways of cutting those stiles, one possibility would be to have a 12mm MDF template, use that to pencil an outline then bandsaw just outside the line, then use the same template with a copy router bit to clean up the cut, then use a chisel to clean out the little curve that the router would leave on the inside corner, jigging the chisel off the straight sections left by the router.

Full marks to whoever made the door in the photo, that looks a quality job.

 

[pollys13]

If you mean straight off a bandsaw then probably not, even with a meat & fish blade I doubt the cut would be good enough. After all a gunstock is a prestige joint, making it gappy or with a thick glue line would defeat the object.

There'll be many alternative ways of cutting those stiles, one possibility would be to have a 12mm MDF template, use that to pencil an outline then bandsaw just outside the line, then use the same template with a copy router bit to clean up the cut, then use a chisel to clean out the little curve that the router would leave on the inside corner, jigging the chisel off the straight sections left by the router.

Full marks to whoever made the door in the photo, that looks a quality job.

Yes the Walnut? looking door is a really nice one. I think the other door is Sapele or Utile?
What would the choices be for doing the lock rail cuts on the Sapele door?
Cheers.

 

[custard]

Again, plenty of build options for the rail depending what equipment you've got. You could do the whole thing with a dado set in a tablesaw with either a simple template to set the angle or if you've got a sliding table then just set the table fence to the appropriate angle. Alternatively you could use a router or a spindle moulder (although spindle guarding would be an issue in a commercial workshop). If you're proficient with a hand plane you could just cut the shoulders on a tablesaw and hog out the waste to form the tenon cheeks with a bench plane, there's such a massive acreage of glue surface that if you used a gap filling glue like Cascamite you'd still get a secure joint even with a few little hollow patches here and there.

I've never made a gunstock on a full sized door, but a version of it was one of the signature constructional details at the Barnsley Workshops and was used regularly up until the late 1980's. Here's a Barnsley table that's about fifty years old now showing the gunstock joint and gunstock moulding, it's clearer on the left hand leg to apron joint as the joint has opened very slightly (still not bad after a half century of use!). It's a beautifully understated detail, especially with the subtle curve to the underside of the apron rail, also the fact that it demands a flush rail rather than the normal 1/8" inset reveal makes it look very fresh and contemporary,

The bead moulding is added afterwards using a scratchstock. I made something similar on a side table just to give it a go, and scratching in that bead was a nerve racking job, there's quite a bit of contrary grain as you navigate through the curve and one slip means a couple of hundred hours work has just gone down the toilet.

 

[mahomo59]

Yikes! Remember making door very similar to that at college and ripping Stiles down by hand... Very happy when mine got sold at an open day

 

[katellwood]

I've got experience of gunstock stiles in a door I made a few years ago

Look at the second page of the attached which shows how I completed the project

making-a-door-t19473.html?hilit=door

 

[pollys13]

Again, plenty of build options for the rail depending what equipment you've got. You could do the whole thing with a dado set in a tablesaw with either a simple template to set the angle or if you've got a sliding table then just set the table fence to the appropriate angle. Alternatively you could use a router or a spindle moulder (although spindle guarding would be an issue in a commercial workshop). If you're proficient with a hand plane you could just cut the shoulders on a tablesaw and hog out the waste to form the tenon cheeks with a bench plane, there's such a massive acreage of glue surface that if you used a gap filling glue like Cascamite you'd still get a secure joint even with a few little hollow patches here and there.

I've never made a gunstock on a full sized door, but a version of it was one of the signature constructional details at the Barnsley Workshops and was used regularly up until the late 1980's. Here's a Barnsley table that's about fifty years old now showing the gunstock joint and gunstock moulding, it's clearer on the left hand leg to apron joint as the joint has opened very slightly (still not bad after a half century of use!). It's a beautifully understated detail, especially with the subtle curve to the underside of the apron rail, also the fact that it demands a flush rail rather than the normal 1/8" inset reveal makes it look very fresh and contemporary,



The bead moulding is added afterwards using a scratchstock. I made something similar on a side table just to give it a go, and scratching in that bead was a nerve racking job, there's quite a bit of contrary grain as you navigate through the curve and one slip means a couple of hundred hours work has just gone down the toilet.

I don't have a sliding table on my saw bench the Axminster one is several hundred and the American after market sliding table kits are just as expensive probable more so with import VAT. That said, I do have a UJK Technology Precision mitre Gauge & Fence, the fence is 458mm long.Would this do in place of the sliding table?
http://www.axminster.co.uk/ujk-technolo ... nce-501281
" You could do the whole thing with a dado set in a tablesaw with either a simple template to set the angle " My saw won't accept dado blades but I'd still be interested to know how it could be done with a dado stack, could you explain a little please? Alternatively you could use a router, how so?.
I do have a an Axminster 4HP spindle with an updated finger fence.The spindle, is as it were, locked up out of harms way at the moment.Until I learn many of the basics like using a No 4 to remove planer ripple and other machining marks. The spindle, I have downloaded HSE leaflets on their safe use, books, Roy Suttons Basic Spindle Moulding DVD. Peter Seftons article on making the most of your spindle moulder, I've also compiled a short list of knowledgeble posters on the spindle. So when I do come to use the machine I will check with them first if they don't mind, to be sure I'm doing things correctly or if I missed something I should be aware of.
Cheers.
"all men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night....wake in the day to find that it was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream with open eyes, to make it possible."
T.E. Lawrence

 

[pollys13]

I've got experience of gunstock stiles in a door I made a few years ago

Look at the second page of the attached which shows how I completed the project

making-a-door-t19473.html?hilit=door

Thanks for that, very interesting when I've developed my skill sets and I'm ready to make some doors. I hope is OK if I ask you to clarify any points I'm not sure on?

Custurd said, " then use a chisel to clean out the little curve that the router would leave on the inside corner, jigging the chisel off the straight sections left by the router." Is this what your doing? see attached, I've seen a photo or diagram of what I think is the same thing somewhere else.

"all men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night....wake in the day to find that it was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream with open eyes, to make it possible."
T.E. Lawrence
Cheers.

 

[deema]

The gun stock is not actually that difficult to make, it's a little more difficult than a 90 degree tenon, but not much more difficult.

Firstly cut the stiles recess out, hand saw, band saw which ever you feel comfortable with. Plane the cut surface to get it absolutely 100% straight and smooth. Alternatively you can use a router with a piece of wood clamped at the correct angle as a fence to achieve the angles cut with just a little cleaning up with a chisel where the two angled surfaces meet.

Assemble the door with the top and bottom rails, lay it on top of the middle rail, square up the door (raise the door on blocks) and check your marking out of the middle rail. Often with cleaning up the styles you will find that the width of the middle rail needs a very slight adjustment. Scribe the gun stock onto the middle rail with a knife.

You can hand cut the tennon on the middle rail, or use any of the methods Custard describes, or alternatively use a router and an board to act as a fence set against the scribed line (set back the appropriate distance).

I use a bandsaw, bull nosed plane, chisel and a mitre template for the return to the moulding around the panel (clico or Marples used to make them, but you can easily make a wooden one)

 

[pollys13]

OK thanks for that deema

"all men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night....wake in the day to find that it was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream with open eyes, to make it possible."
T.E. Lawrence
Cheers.

 

[pollys13]

If you mean straight off a bandsaw then probably not, even with a meat & fish blade I doubt the cut would be good enough. After all a gunstock is a prestige joint, making it gappy or with a thick glue line would defeat the object.

There'll be many alternative ways of cutting those stiles, one possibility would be to have a 12mm MDF template, use that to pencil an outline then bandsaw just outside the line, then use the same template with a copy router bit to clean up the cut, then use a chisel to clean out the little curve that the router would leave on the inside corner, jigging the chisel off the straight sections left by the router.

Full marks to whoever made the door in the photo, that looks a quality job.

" then use a chisel to clean out the little curve that the router would leave on the inside corner, jigging the chisel off the straight sections left by the router." In katellwoods reply in one photo, see attached. Is this what he is doing?

"all men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night....wake in the day to find that it was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream with open eyes, to make it possible."
T.E. Lawrence