Recommend a precision mitre saw
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cambournepete
Established Member
mickthetree
Established Member
Theres no comparison when it comes to these. The Nobex Champion is the one you need.
Oryxdesign
Established Member
Yep, champion.
bugbear
Established Member
may I follow this fashion and recommend the Nobex Champion?
BugBear (happy owner and user)
BugBear (happy owner and user)
Mike Wingate
Established Member
Just bought a Nobex Champ from Tilgear. Very dissapointed that I had to put it all togetether. I had a spring left over. 3 weeks on, I found it was carrying clip to hold the blade intransit. Brilliant saw though.
mickthetree
Established Member
That is true, all of the nobex saws need assembling. But they are great!
Could someone please explain what makes the Nobex Champion is so superior to cheaper competition.
Please understand : I'm not really doubting it's superiority. There seem to be too many people attesting to it's virtues for that. But I find little on the net in the way of reasoned argument. I can guess at a few of these reasons from the deficiencies I have found with my cheapo B&Q version. But I'd like to hear a few of the specific comparative virtues from owners/users, since I am considering an upgrade myself.
So, to set the ball rolling, these are few of the downsides of the B&Q object:
a) The fence isn't very high. Among other things, I use the saw for rough-cutting the mitres on the sides of boxes (subsequently trued with a plane and a shooting board). Beyond a couple of inches height, the support for the workpiece is very poor (I have to clamp an upright piece of mitred scrap behind the workpiece to provide support).
b) Even when I support it (as above) the blade tends to wander from the vertical. This seems to be because the clamps/blade-holders at the two ends of the blade are not themselves truly vertical. I can get a vertical blade with shims, and extra clamps - but it's a pain to get it 'just-so'.
c) The clamps aren't brilliant, and they don't reach close enough to the saw blade for my liking. If I want to cut an angle on a small piece of wood I have to improvise other holding methods.
d) The saw won't 'clamp' at anything except the pre-set angles (45 degrees, 22-1/2 etc), and then only because there are presets for the rotating table to slot into - there's no clamp as such at all. So if I just want to cut a small 10 degree wedge, I have to resort to all sorts of ad-hoc clamping methods just to keep the blade from wandering from the required angle.
e) The handle is poorly shaped and uncomfortable to use for any length of time (there's a surprise! - but it's worse than most modern handsaws).
In it's defence, I should say that the B&Q tool would probably be perfectly adequate if I were just rough-cutting 45 degree mitres on architrave or picture frames. I'd like something better, but at a going rate of well over £100 for a new Nobex Champion, I need some convincing!
Please understand : I'm not really doubting it's superiority. There seem to be too many people attesting to it's virtues for that. But I find little on the net in the way of reasoned argument. I can guess at a few of these reasons from the deficiencies I have found with my cheapo B&Q version. But I'd like to hear a few of the specific comparative virtues from owners/users, since I am considering an upgrade myself.
So, to set the ball rolling, these are few of the downsides of the B&Q object:
a) The fence isn't very high. Among other things, I use the saw for rough-cutting the mitres on the sides of boxes (subsequently trued with a plane and a shooting board). Beyond a couple of inches height, the support for the workpiece is very poor (I have to clamp an upright piece of mitred scrap behind the workpiece to provide support).
b) Even when I support it (as above) the blade tends to wander from the vertical. This seems to be because the clamps/blade-holders at the two ends of the blade are not themselves truly vertical. I can get a vertical blade with shims, and extra clamps - but it's a pain to get it 'just-so'.
c) The clamps aren't brilliant, and they don't reach close enough to the saw blade for my liking. If I want to cut an angle on a small piece of wood I have to improvise other holding methods.
d) The saw won't 'clamp' at anything except the pre-set angles (45 degrees, 22-1/2 etc), and then only because there are presets for the rotating table to slot into - there's no clamp as such at all. So if I just want to cut a small 10 degree wedge, I have to resort to all sorts of ad-hoc clamping methods just to keep the blade from wandering from the required angle.
e) The handle is poorly shaped and uncomfortable to use for any length of time (there's a surprise! - but it's worse than most modern handsaws).
In it's defence, I should say that the B&Q tool would probably be perfectly adequate if I were just rough-cutting 45 degree mitres on architrave or picture frames. I'd like something better, but at a going rate of well over £100 for a new Nobex Champion, I need some convincing!
mickthetree
Established Member
baldpate":2sm15r6l said:In it's defence, I should say that the B&Q tool would probably be perfectly adequate if I were just rough-cutting 45 degree mitres on architrave or picture frames. I'd like something better, but at a going rate of well over £100 for a new Nobex Champion, I need some convincing!
I would have to disagree that these cheapo saws are ok for cutting architrave and especially for picture frames where the accuracy is ever so important.
On my cheapo mitre saw I have used it for just those situations and even on the smallest of framing material, the blade wanders dramatically. I have assumed user error and spent many hours trying to get it to work and the only way I have managed is to cut with such a light stroke that it takes an AGE!
The architrave is worse, probably because of
If you cant justify the money, make (or buy) a mitre box instead. Heck, even make a few so you can have them with specific angles that you want to make.
I have a el cheapo (wickes) , but have used the Nobex Champion and it does everything right that the cheap one does not. However!! the handle is still rubbish.
Replacement handle..
Erm.... Why isnt someone making replacement handles for the nobex and sellin gthem on ebay?
bugbear
Established Member
mickthetree":39fjtf1p said:
Yes - it's bizarre. Nobex handles are uncomfortable and fragile, and have been for years.
http://web.archive.org/web/200901140249 ... bex_handle
BugBear
RogerS
Established Member
Don't whatever you do buy the Axminster one as it is truly pants.
After further tussles with the B&Q object, I finally lost patience and recently took the plunge and bought a second-hand Nobex Champion off Ebay - cosmetically a bit battered, but with a decent blade and nothing too obviously wrong. Having run it though a few paces, I must say I am quite impressed. Since in an earlier post I expressed some doubts, I would now like to give my assessment: I've set my comments against the specific problems I had with the B&Q object
.
a) The fence isn't very high. Among other things, I use the saw for rough-cutting the mitres on the sides of boxes (subsequently trued with a plane and a shooting board). Beyond a couple of inches height, the support for the workpiece is very poor (I have to clamp an upright piece of mitred scrap behind the workpiece to provide support).
The basic fence on the Nobex Champion is higher than the B&Q one. Furthermore, it comes with a couple of tall supports close to the cut-line. I'd seen them in pictures, but didn't really believe they would be much good. In fact, they are brilliant. It's all down to the way they slide with absolute precision into 'dovetailed' supports behind the main fence, and the fact that they are precisely ground to align with the vertical plane of the main fence.
b) Even when I support it (as above) the blade tends to wander from the vertical. This seems to be because the clamps/blade-holders at the two ends of the blade are not themselves truly vertical. I can get a vertical blade with shims, and extra clamps - but it's a pain to get it 'just-so'.
The blade on the Nobex clamps to the saw frame absolutely vertical to the saw table (I checked with a square) - something which took a deal of shimming and clamping on the B&Q object. I finally realised that the reason my old B&Q saw still wandered off vertical was that the vertical guide rods were a degree or so off-vertical. That was the final straw which drove me to buy the Nobex, since there is no way to adjust the B&Q guide rods. On the Nobex, I have just cut an 8" board (albeit a thin one) vertically with absolute precision (as checked by an engineers square after the cut) - something my B&Q object was completely incapable of doing. I haven't yet tried the 45 cut, but on experience so far I am very hopeful.
I would also add that the fence on the Nobex is absolutely at right angles to the table base (whereas the B&Q object was slightly out - never measured it accurately, perhaps 1 degree?)
c) The material clamps aren't brilliant, and they don't reach close enough to the saw blade for my liking. If I want to cut an angle on a small piece of wood I have to improvise other holding methods.
This is still a bit of a problem on the Nobex too - pressure is still applied quite a distance from the cutting point. The material clamping system on the Nobex is very much better than that on the B&Q saw, however, in that the clamp is pulled by a clutch system from behind the fence. Furthermore the Nobex clamps are made from very substantial diameter round rods. I can live with this, although for my purposes it isn't perfect.
d) The saw won't 'clamp' at anything except the pre-set angles (45 degrees, 22-1/2 etc), and then only because there are presets for the rotating table to slot into - there's no clamp as such at all. So if I just want to cut a small 10 degree wedge, I have to resort to all sorts of ad-hoc clamping methods just to keep the blade from wandering from the required angle.
The Nobex will clamp absolutely firmly at any angle, not just the pre-sets. So far, I have only tested the accuracy of the 90 degree pre-set angle, which was spot-on. However, since the manufacturers make such play of the accuracy of their saw in this particular respect, I have little doubt the other pre-set angles will turn out to be equally accurate.
e) The handle is poorly shaped and uncomfortable to use for any length of time (there's a surprise! - but it's worse than most modern handsaws).
As other posters have observed, the Nobex is just as bad - indeed it is worse than the B&Q saw (which at least was robustly made of cast aluminium, whereas the Nobex is plastic - on my saw, slightly broken plastic !). Hey-ho! another saw handle to be made.
Summary: despite some minor deficiencies (definitely the handle, and - in some respects - the material clamps) there's no doubt the Nobex Champion is in all important ways a much better-engineered product than the cheap B&Q item - and that better engineering translates into accurate cutting. I'm very pleased with my second-hand purchase (about £50, with P&P). New ones, however, are nowadays (with P&P) asking getting on for £140/150. Call me cheap, but as an amateur I doubt I could have brought myself to pay the current, new price for this tool, good though it is.
.
a) The fence isn't very high. Among other things, I use the saw for rough-cutting the mitres on the sides of boxes (subsequently trued with a plane and a shooting board). Beyond a couple of inches height, the support for the workpiece is very poor (I have to clamp an upright piece of mitred scrap behind the workpiece to provide support).
The basic fence on the Nobex Champion is higher than the B&Q one. Furthermore, it comes with a couple of tall supports close to the cut-line. I'd seen them in pictures, but didn't really believe they would be much good. In fact, they are brilliant. It's all down to the way they slide with absolute precision into 'dovetailed' supports behind the main fence, and the fact that they are precisely ground to align with the vertical plane of the main fence.
b) Even when I support it (as above) the blade tends to wander from the vertical. This seems to be because the clamps/blade-holders at the two ends of the blade are not themselves truly vertical. I can get a vertical blade with shims, and extra clamps - but it's a pain to get it 'just-so'.
The blade on the Nobex clamps to the saw frame absolutely vertical to the saw table (I checked with a square) - something which took a deal of shimming and clamping on the B&Q object. I finally realised that the reason my old B&Q saw still wandered off vertical was that the vertical guide rods were a degree or so off-vertical. That was the final straw which drove me to buy the Nobex, since there is no way to adjust the B&Q guide rods. On the Nobex, I have just cut an 8" board (albeit a thin one) vertically with absolute precision (as checked by an engineers square after the cut) - something my B&Q object was completely incapable of doing. I haven't yet tried the 45 cut, but on experience so far I am very hopeful.
I would also add that the fence on the Nobex is absolutely at right angles to the table base (whereas the B&Q object was slightly out - never measured it accurately, perhaps 1 degree?)
c) The material clamps aren't brilliant, and they don't reach close enough to the saw blade for my liking. If I want to cut an angle on a small piece of wood I have to improvise other holding methods.
This is still a bit of a problem on the Nobex too - pressure is still applied quite a distance from the cutting point. The material clamping system on the Nobex is very much better than that on the B&Q saw, however, in that the clamp is pulled by a clutch system from behind the fence. Furthermore the Nobex clamps are made from very substantial diameter round rods. I can live with this, although for my purposes it isn't perfect.
d) The saw won't 'clamp' at anything except the pre-set angles (45 degrees, 22-1/2 etc), and then only because there are presets for the rotating table to slot into - there's no clamp as such at all. So if I just want to cut a small 10 degree wedge, I have to resort to all sorts of ad-hoc clamping methods just to keep the blade from wandering from the required angle.
The Nobex will clamp absolutely firmly at any angle, not just the pre-sets. So far, I have only tested the accuracy of the 90 degree pre-set angle, which was spot-on. However, since the manufacturers make such play of the accuracy of their saw in this particular respect, I have little doubt the other pre-set angles will turn out to be equally accurate.
e) The handle is poorly shaped and uncomfortable to use for any length of time (there's a surprise! - but it's worse than most modern handsaws).
As other posters have observed, the Nobex is just as bad - indeed it is worse than the B&Q saw (which at least was robustly made of cast aluminium, whereas the Nobex is plastic - on my saw, slightly broken plastic !). Hey-ho! another saw handle to be made.
Summary: despite some minor deficiencies (definitely the handle, and - in some respects - the material clamps) there's no doubt the Nobex Champion is in all important ways a much better-engineered product than the cheap B&Q item - and that better engineering translates into accurate cutting. I'm very pleased with my second-hand purchase (about £50, with P&P). New ones, however, are nowadays (with P&P) asking getting on for £140/150. Call me cheap, but as an amateur I doubt I could have brought myself to pay the current, new price for this tool, good though it is.
I find all the nobex saws a bit cheap and chearful. Get youself a Ulmia, the only bit of plastic on them is a small bush otherwise they are cast iron and steel. I've had one for about 25yrs and its as good as the day it was bought.
http://www.ulmia.de/English/Ulmia-Gehrungssaegen_1.htm
They used to do a far bigger range but with the advent of chop saws they have reduced it down now so you won't find the ones with the 4ft long bed.
J
http://www.ulmia.de/English/Ulmia-Gehrungssaegen_1.htm
They used to do a far bigger range but with the advent of chop saws they have reduced it down now so you won't find the ones with the 4ft long bed.
J
Ulmia ... they may well be good, but their website gives no prices that I can see; perhaps it's a bit like like they say about a Rolls-Royce : if you have to ask the price, you can't afford it !
From what I can find on the web, though, they're expensive and not readily available. The Nobex isn't cheap, but it is quite readily available and it does work (mine does, anyway).
From what I can find on the web, though, they're expensive and not readily available. The Nobex isn't cheap, but it is quite readily available and it does work (mine does, anyway).
