rebuild wadkin bursgreen panel saw

[brenlixnaw]

happy new year all
thats it with my creeping
ive just been and view a wadkin bursgreen panel saw(seems to be bgp 1500) from look of it and comparing it to their libary photos,it all seems to be there , and left deposit with intentions to pick up next sunday
but if any one can give me any advice as reguards 3 phase issue as i have no 3 phase in shed ,ive looked at all options but which one
will work best now i am very concerned about cost also have decent smaller saw that works ok but wont cut suare and with this in mind id like to go towards vfd inverter if possible
i wrote some of the details off the motor
FRAME D100L SERIAL MB1721/2
OUTPUT KW 3.7
REVS/MIN 2840
V 220/380
A 13.5/7.8
HZ 5.0 PHASE 3
RATING M/C
INSI CLASS B
2KX
also on the body i got these details
MACHINE NUMBER 60BGP77215
i hope some one has some details of best way to resolve the three phase issue
and also some experience of using this style of machine
at moment its in the owners mothers shed and in a bit of a mess so i have to get it back home cleaned up and working
im looking forward to the task bit like car restoring but with a useable tool at the end
ill get some photos up once i get it home

 

[wallace]

With regard to the motor its quite big 3.7kw which is about 5hp. Inverters get more pricey as the hp increases. Are you planning on getting any more 3 phase stuff if so a converter, static or rotary would be an option. You would need a decent sized one for the saw. I have a 5.5kw transwave static converter and it runs my wadkin saw which is 4hp and my EQ spindle which is 5hp ok. One problem I have found with a static converter is when deep ripping stuff of 6" the converter struggled. You also loose about a third of the power with a static as apposed to rotary converter. Rotary converters are alot more expensive.
HTH
Mark

 

[brenlixnaw]

thanks for the reply im not planning on getting any more 3 phase machines ive got all equipment i need for the work im doing but allways fancied an full size panel saw for more square cuts on large sheets but i only cut 18mm timber so after more googling maybe ill go for a single phase 3 hp motor swap but id need some advice on what extras id need to do the job as i dont know what else is needed also seen an inverter vfd on ebay for 5 hp at 141 pounds but what do i have to spend after that and is it any good

 

[Andy RV]

Is £141 the buy it now price? As it seems too cheap for a 5hp, this is what you should be expecting to pay for an inverter suitable for your machine: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5HP-240V-...ial_Automation_Control_ET&hash=item589abcd3c9

You'll need to run such a unit on either a 16 or 32 amp circuit depending on the current it draws, probably 32a for a 5hp.

You've got a dual voltage motor so you can run it on 240v 3 phase which keeps costs down if you go for the inverter route.
Another option is to build your own static/ rotary converter unit, there's loads of information here if you fancy an electrical project: http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/transformers-phase-converters-vfd/

 

[GK1]

You should be able to get a single to three phase inverter but you'll have to swap some jumpers in the motor terminal block.

An inverter with a powerful machine such as yours has benefits beyond just making it work. I have two Wadkin 4Kw table saws, and even though I have 3-phase I run them both off VFDs.

With DOL starting, one saw would squeal the belt for a good few seconds as it started up and when switched off it ran on for ages. No amount of belt tightening would stop it squealing. The other saw has a double vee belt drive which doesn't slip but the machine gave a mighty thump as it started. Now, they both have a really nice smooth start at about 3 seconds.

Braking can be controlled and there's an age of difference when you can shave 7 seconds off the stop time. You're not tempted to grab your work as the blade is running down.

Both inverters were off eBay, one was £205 in 2005 and the other £140 a few weeks ago. But I accept you can buy a used one and have it die in weeks. Regarding setting up for a square cut, check out the 5-cut method to test.

 

[brenlixnaw]

cheers for the helpful replies
i know the first inverter seems to be the kind of thing im going to go for but this seller does not post to Ireland ill find one that does but also while waiting to get saw home and set up ill try not to commit myself to any one option so as i can buy some thing at a really good price if it comes up
ive been and sorted loan of trailer for next sunday im loading it onto trailer and not into van so as when i get it home if i stuggle to get it into shed ill still be able to use van while trying to figure out how to get it on to ground it weighs 1 1/2 ton as best i can figure out
also GK1 the vfd you bought recently for 140 was it an ebay seller if so can you give me details or name and model of inverter i live in hope

 

[Andy RV]

Good choice on using a trailer, I've hired vans in the past and wished I had a trailer as well as you can get at them from 3 sides easily and they are low to the ground.
Short lengths of scaffolding tube make great rollers for moving heavy equipment. I don't know what equipment you have but considering you've only the basics i'd be using a winch /block and tackle ect.. to lower it down on rollers using some sturdy planks from the back of the trailer, watch out that the trailer doesn't tip up as the weight shifts to the back.
Does the seller have a fork lift for loading? If so drop it on some battens to ensure you can get rollers underneath when you need them then knock out the battens until it's sitting on the rollers.

 

[deema]

The motor you have is a dual voltage motor, which means that either 240 or 415 can be used. Outside the motor there will be wires or metal links that change the motor from star (415) to delta (240) made. It's usually very simple to do.

An inverter has a lot of advantages over any other system you may choose. Firstly, it will have a soft start function. Switching on a motor initially causes a massive inrush of current, until the motor runs up. There is a lot of technical stuff why this happens. However, with soft start the voltage and current are limited and the motor in rush current is limited. This rules the fatigue on all of the electrical bits and stops the lights and neighbours lights dimming every time you start it up. Secondly, if you want you can use it to change the speed of the saw, there are advantages to running slower in some instances. An inverter will also protect your motor if you stall it, typically be having the wood caught in the saw teeth when starting up! It will limit the current that can be applied preventing the motor windings burning out or catching fire. I have had a table saw why the motor caught fire.....not funny!

The most important feature is that an inverter can be used to stop the saw when its switched off and make it Legally compliment. The biggest issue though is that the blade stops moving quickly preventing fingers getting in their after patience runs out. A motor brake from Crompton for example will cost circs £350. This is included.

The inverter will rep,ace the switch gear on the machine, which if its needs replacing and you get some decent stuff will cost over £100. All in all, the inverter route is the cheapest, safest and optimal solution

 

[GK1]

also GK1 the vfd you bought recently for 140 was it an ebay seller if so can you give me details or name and model of inverter i live in hope

It’s the Jaguar IMO 400 which is currently on at £160 but the seller accepted my first offer of £125 plus postage.

But, its not what you want - mine is a 440v inverter, you need a 240v one.

You’ll need some switchgear for starting as well, the on/off on the inverter won’t be in reach and in any case the buttons are not usually very convenient to press. You can do it with a couple of 12v simple press buttons on a metal switchbox fixed to the machine and connected to the inverter with a length of 3-core. Actually I use a simple on/off toggle switch in easy reach connected with a two core flex. I can switch it off with a flick of the wrist in an instant. It’s not NVR and possibly doesn’t comply, but there’s no commercial use so I don’t have to.

 

[brenlixnaw]

thanks for all advice from all and ive decided to go with the inverter but as i speak we have nt got it home yet
but for now
cheers all