Quality Mid Range Hand Planes ?

[neilyweely]

OK, I did make a long entry, but the laptop is playing up a bit.

I have some old record planes that could do with 'tuning up', which I fear is beyond me (I could test run the stanley ones and see how I go!!). I think I remember MatthewH doing some work with planes, is this correct?

Is there anyone else I could use? Am I correct Matthew? (Yeah mate, thats right, send me all your planes and a coupla hundred quid.......byeeee) :wink:


I think the problem is no-one knows exactly what a midrange plane will be, eh? Difficult to say, I suppose. I still think there is a market for them though. But I suppose their research teams would know more about it than I.

Neil

 

[bugbear]

It appears by "mid range" that people mean LN/Clifton/LV performance, but for a 60 % of the price.

I suspect this may prove optimistic, apart from second hand.

In particular, given his clearly stated priorities, if this price/performance point could be hit, Rob Lee would have hit it.

BugBear

 

[ByronBlack]

It appears by "mid range" that people mean LN/Clifton/LV performance, but for a 60 % of the price.

I suspect this may prove optimistic, apart from second hand.

In particular, given his clearly stated priorities, if this price/performance point could be hit, Rob Lee would have hit it.

BugBear

I don't believe many people have said they expect the premium performance, I for one would happy to be near the performance which shouldn't be that hard to do seeing as you can near the performance with a well tuned stanley/record (pre-war), I think what people are basically saying is that want that level of performance without all the hassle and trouble and time consumption of fettling an old beater.

I certainly think that the premium companies could if they really wanted to compromise on certain aspects of their construction to produce a sub £100 plane of very good performance out of the box. The finish isn't so important, and neither are some of the other things like accessories, shiny brass knobs etc.. the only that needs to happen is that the sole is flat and square to the sides, the frog if there is one is sturdy and the blade/chipbreaker arrangement are in good order, all the other stuff can be compromised/economised to bring down the price.

Thats exactly how I see the new veritas saw - they have made compromises on things that don't matter aesthetically and materially, and concentrated on a tool that performs excellently out of the box.

 

[lurker]

I've banged this particular drum quite a few times but here goes again:

I can't see how you can become a proficient plane user without going down the route of learning how to fettle a plane.
Easiest, cheapest way of doing that is a sub- 10 quid stanley car booter.
How do you learn a skill without making mistakes?

After that, I can see the natural step up to a decent plane

Anyone here who says they have gone straight to LV or LN or cliftons is either a liar or a very rich man.

 

[wizer]

As I said, my first plane was a pre-fettled Block plane (bought here) and then a pre-fettled No.4 from Mark. I then went on to the Veritas BUS and the LN No.9. I have no intention of fettling planes personally. I want to get on with the job. I don't mind paying for the privilege. However, when I first started, I couldn't afford the luxury and wasn't remotely interested in toiling for hours trying to get something to work which I had no idea how to use. Chicken Egg springs to mind. Had there been a plane in the mid range which I could have learned to hand plane and get average-to-good results, I'd have got into hand tools a lot earlier, to my benefit. Fettling in some respects is an engineering/metalworking skill, some of us are just into making wooden furniture (albeit slowly).

 

[Mikey R]

I can't see how you can become a proficient plane user without going down the route of learning how to fettle a plane.
Easiest, cheapest way of doing that is a sub- 10 quid stanley car booter.
How do you learn a skill without making mistakes?

Hi Lurker,

It would seem to me that fettling a plane is a different skill that using one.

Also, until you have used a well set up plane, either a LN / LV or a pre-fettled Stanley, you will have no idea what a good plane is supposed to feel like, so you wont know what to shoot for.

Ive had a go at fettling a (brand new) Record 04, until I bought a decent Stanley 4 from Racers I didnt know even if I was close ideal.

Now Ive got an old stanley 6 to fettle, I still would like a Clifton 7 next.

 

[frugal]

I can't see how you can become a proficient plane user without going down the route of learning how to fettle a plane.
Easiest, cheapest way of doing that is a sub- 10 quid stanley car booter.
How do you learn a skill without making mistakes?

After that, I can see the natural step up to a decent plane

That is a bit like saying: I can't see how you can become a decent car driver without going down the route of rebuilding a car engine.

 

[lurker]

I'd agree wholeheartedly until you see/use a well set up plane you will never see the light. This has to be the reason why planes are abandoned by Joe Average & there are so many available cheap to the rest of us.

Ok maybe full fettle can be avoided but adjustment you learn by fettling & blade honeing is essential.

I think the main reason some people here spend a fortune "chasing" a magic sharpening methods is that they have not learned the fundamentals. Skills can't be substituted for wads of cash.

Equally even a Hotley isn't going to make a rubbish plane user any better.

 

[David Cockey]

My understanding is that before Record went out of production, LV sold many more Record planes than Veritas planes.

 

[neilyweely]

So, doesn't that kinda prove the argument? Sorry, discussion.

I would love to be at the level some of you folk are at where you can justify spending that sort of money on a plane, even a collection of them!!

Truth is I am 'Mr Average.' (In some ways, but some men are more 'average' than others!! In other ways.) Sorry, don't usually do innuendo.

Incidentally, I wonder if "They" are taking notice of this discussion? Praps we should go on about it a bit longer, and "They" will begin production!!??!!
:wink: :wink: :wink:

Again, 2p.

Neil

 

[Derek Willis.]

About a year ago, after reading all that is said about fettling planes I decided to have a look at two of my planes, both more than 40 years old and in constant use all the time, a jack and a smoother, both Record, I couldn't fettle the sole on either one on a sheet of wet and dry attached to a 6mm plate glass sheet , no change in the surface whatsoever, the whole surface of the sole was in contact. (Probably because it had been fettled by the constant use over 40 or so years).
Derek.

 

[ivan]

Bought just before the accountants took over the engineering department. In the old days castings were left to age so they did not distort on machining. Tying up stock in heaps, usually outdoors, cost money and was done away with. The technical solution of heat cycling used today also costs, and is now limited to the top of the market. Today's "everyday" plane is only flat at the moment it leaves the grinder ( or more likely, linisher (belt sander))

The best standard planes were made pre war, as they had a bit more metal in them. Wouldn't one of these and the relevant Charlesworth DVD be the most economical way of doing it?

 

[Handworkfan]

I'm not particularly in the market for a mid-range plane, but I know what I'd be looking for if I were.
Blades can be changed, soles can be flattened, adjusters can be tweaked, but the one thing that I won't now do without on a plane is an easily-adjustable mouth. With the standard Stanleys and Records, adjusting the mouth was such a faff that I found myself tempted to soldier on with the wrong setting rather than go to the trouble of changing it. With my current planes the mouth is adjusted either by moving the frog with the blade assembly in place or by closing up the sole plate - a few moments' work. This means I can easily have the mouth setting right for whatever I'm doing, and the difference it makes is dramatic.
A mid-range plane for me - were I in the market - would be one that probably needed some lapping work on the sole, and possibly could use a better cutter, and perhaps had a tad more backlash than I like, but had had the extra R&D money invested in an easy mouth-adjustment system.
Now whether there's a market waiting for that plane is another and very dubious question, it seems to me - but it would clearly and specifically distance the 'mid-range' plane from the current offerings.

 

[Benchwayze]

Hello, everyone.
First post. be gentle.

I think older Stanleys/records fill the midrange slot nicely. I also think people overestimate the amount of fettling required.

Buy nice old stanley for £30 or so, have the sole reground for £20 by Ray Iles, add a new thicker blade and back iron ~£40 (Ray will even file the mouth for you if required) and voila! you have the perfect sub-£100 midrange plane.

Definitely. Ike seems to agree too.

I would never part with my 1950's Stanley No. 4. Cost £8.00 if I recall! A week's wages then. (Though the thicker blades won't fit without filing)
One improvement I would make on all metal bench planes, is an accurate, adjustable mouth (via the front sole). The humble Jack would then be useful for much finer work; maybe keep aside a special blade for it too?

 

[ike]

Just seen the Grant planes in the Tilgear catalogue. Anyone have any of these? What sort of quality are they? Possibly fit the bill as mid-range planes?

A Bedrock pattern No.5 for £69.50 seems very good value!

Ike

 

[Routermonster]

My Tilgear catalogue arrived this morning. For a moment I thought they were doing a sale on LN planes! Duh! :roll:
Those Grant planes look like a copy of the LNs - probably made in India or China as usual
As for the rest of the stuff on offer ....
Les

 

[wizer]

Yes I just saw that. No way of knowing the quality until they are put to the test. They certainly look bling bling

 

[Philly]

Hah! Just seen the Grant planes myself - L-N knock offs!!! My first thought was "there's a mid-range plane for ya!".
Be interested to see how they perform - although not that interested that I'd buy one :lol:
Philly

 

[ivan]

Be a good place to start, provided theyre not too cheaply put together. Plenty of warped surfaces to flatten, but probably no worse than any other modern lower priced offering. I wonder if the block plane has a 'proper' bed like the LN and a cap long enough to press the blade onto it?

 

[bugbear]

Be a good place to start, provided theyre not too cheaply put together. Plenty of warped surfaces to flatten, but probably no worse than any other modern lower priced offering. I wonder if the block plane has a 'proper' bed like the LN and a cap long enough to press the blade onto it?

It's difficult to fettle out porous castings, loose fitting threads, and soft blades.

BugBear