posi woodscrews v Torx

[voyager]

Will posi screws be relegated to history ?

just gone through a cpl of boxes of the Woodspur torx headed screws, and what a revelation.

cutting tips and wax coated, out of 800 screws not one stripped head and a good number were in tight corners where a posi would have most likely stripped.
looks like I might be replacing my stock as i go.

 

[AES]

I'm more than half way inclined to agree with you voyager, BUT for hobbyists like me (you too?) I do see a problem.

Except for certain very commonly used sizes, if I buy a box of, say, 100 or so screws, they will normally last me a long time. And especially when it's for something that must be "undoable" (but for other places too) I absolutely HATE having a mix of different screw head types on the same job.

I therefore find myself ending up with, say, 7 screws of a certain size and head type in a box, and find I need 8 to complete the job!

I'm not sure but would guess the general changeover from normal slotted, to Philips, to pozi, to torx has taken place over the last 40 to 50 years or so. Which means that old codgers like me have loads of "very nearly empty" boxes of all sorts of different size and head-type screws (basically 'cos I'm too tight to throw the "old" ones away).

AND you have the situation in most suppliers, especially those catering mostly to hobbyists rather than professionals (i.e. buyers of the 100 offs rather than the 1000+ offs) where you can't always be sure (yet) that you'll always find torx head screws in the size you want - still just as likely to be pozi.

Finally, one big problem with torx (though it applies to philips and pozi too) is that dried and hardened paint inside the head socket is the very devil to get out if you need to remove the screw. In that respect, the standard single slotted head is much easier to deal with.

Ah well, I guess the totally ideal screw head, AND the ideal simultaneous supply thereof, ain't gonna happen in my lifetime!

But agree basically, so far anyway, torx are pretty good (until the next "sliced bread" comes along). ;-)

 

[AJB Temple]

I am in two minds. I recently had a box of Torx 100mm screws in stainless steel (I think) that were supplied with a German made high quality adjustable post foot. I found, as has happened before, that the impact driver (in this case my oil 'surge' one) snapped two screws close to the end of the drive. This was into pilot holes. Posi Reisser screws (not cheap) went in fine as usual.

Torx gives very good location. These were supposed to be self cutting, but I did pilot holes anyway and they still broke. I suspect part of this is that the drive bit will never slip and all stress is driven into the screw. Hence high quality is essential.

 

[DBT85]

I only had a tiny selection of screws so when I put an order in at toolstation one day I got one of their Sorta screw cases and a load of screws in different sizes. All torx for the reasons already highlighted. Just some ForgeFast self drilling ones. Very happy with them all so far. The box is nice too and I'll get a few more in time.

Only other screws I have on hand at this point are some stainless ones that are pozi. Next lot will be torx if I can get them.

 

[HappyHacker]

I got a deal on a whole pile of torx screws in different sizes and am working my way through them. I agree that they are superior to posi/Phillips but the pain I find is having the right size bit available. There are a few different sizes whereas with Posi there are only three with No2 covering 95% of the screws I use. I am not the most organised person and finding the right bit in a box when I have dropped them in while getting on with the job rather than putting them carefully in the right holder, if I can find it, does take up some time.

Then there is the issue of screwdrivers. I have a plastic Torx set but I have not seen a decent set and again there are so many needed.

If I did not have so many posi and torx screws I would be tempted to try the square drive ones.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

If or when I change, they'll probably be square drive.

 

[Andy Kev.]

I avoid using both posidrive and torx in favour of the ones with a square hole. In my experience that latter are far better than either of the first two. I use them with a Proxon driver and can't fault the combination.

 

[AES]

Well I guess it's a question of personal opinion and/or "horses for courses" and all that, but I don't like Robertson (square drive) at all - and I've used a few in the Kreg pocket hole system.

Just me perhaps, but I find they "cam out" too easily- after all, ultimately, all the torque is only being transferred into the 4 corners of the square - AND from what I can see, not for the complete depth of the socket either. But this (square drive) matter has been discussed before on here and I know that some others disagree with me.

Re torx breaking at "the neck", I think it does indeed have something to do with the drive system - e.g. in my own case I've never had/never used an impact driver and had no problems (but then I'm not being paid to drive gurt big screws into thick timber without pilots all day)!

But I do agree re the number of drivers needed - if you start with 10 (not very common), then 15 (ditto), add in 20, 25, 27 & 30 (all pretty common) then add 35 and 40, that's a total of 8 drivers you need for reasonably complete coverage - and NO, I haven't solved the storage/readily to hand problem either! 3 pozis does cover "99% of all known ......... screws".

I think the reason for the large number of torx drivers needed is that pro-rata, the torx socket is taking away more meat from the screw head than the pozi does.

 

[AndyT]

So far, no new head pattern has totally displaced the others in use. Even people who have never bought a box of slotted head screws will have used them on electrical fittings and will need a matching screw driver.

 

[DBT85]

So far, no new head pattern has totally displaced the others in use. Even people who have never bought a box of slotted head screws will have used them on electrical fittings and will need a matching screw driver.

And also half sliced a finger off at some point when one slips

 

[AES]

Both the above posts are bang on IMO.

I doubt there will EVER be a truly universal "one type suits all" drive method - certainly not in my life time anyway.

 

[AJB Temple]

Very high end pianos fit their piano hinges with brass slotted screws and go to great lengths to align all the slots. I notice this kind of thing

 

[Bm101]

I like the torx but does anyone find the bits wear out fairly quick especially the smaller sizes? Right size for screw and in a drill not driver on a slowish speed. Geared makita decent hand drill. Variety of makes but no really expensive ones used like wera but dewalt and axminster trade ones. The design is prone I suppose. Is it worth investing in wera etc bits? Am I missing summat or do I resign to just buying more .

 

[AndyT]

Very high end pianos fit their piano hinges with brass slotted screws and go to great lengths to align all the slots. I notice this kind of thing

And if they were anything other than slotted, would they look as special? Or just ordinary?

I wonder if it's one of those things that only matters to people over about 50?

 

[AES]

I think (that means NOT KNOW) that "special" screws, such as the smaller brass sizes with C/S heads, chromed "instrument" heads, etc, are only available with slotted heads.

And yes, AJB Temple, that's not only true on pianos, but also true for bolts, machine screws, etc on clocks, where "the best makers" always line up the slots. In fact in some circles, lining up the slots is called "clocking"! Perhaps clockmakers started that habit, dunno.

@AndyT: Probably mainly the over 50s, but not exclusively I think.

@Bm101: Yup I find exactly the same, and BTW, cheapo drivers are mostly a complete disaster. But for me anyway, I find myself chucking even quite expensive torx bits away quite frequently, especially in the smaller sizes, just as you say. They seen to get worn out quite quickly.

 

[Bm101]

Cheers Aes. Good to know it's not me.
I love the wood spur screws for general work. Brilliant but I'm using up the torx box and the last box (unused yet) I got are crosshead. Fitting a understairs cupboard no fine joinery but I have run out of suitable heads. Again. Ive run maybe 200 screws into pine mdf and fixings . Done 2 different sizes heads. Ridiculous.
Not worth the irritation for me and I balk at buying a box of 20 bits because of cost. Cross heads work nearly as well and are common enough to be almost free. Maybe if I was a professional I'd just write off the cost against efficiency but I'm not.
Just a bit grumpy.

 

[Droogs]

So far, no new head pattern has totally displaced the others in use. Even people who have never bought a box of slotted head screws will have used them on electrical fittings and will need a matching screw driver

.

And also half sliced a finger off at some point when one slips...

I will finish the rest of that sentence:
because your using your best silver cheese knife bas you can't find the right size screwdriver

:twisted:

 

[marcros]

Very high end pianos fit their piano hinges with brass slotted screws and go to great lengths to align all the slots. I notice this kind of thing

Isn't the counter argument that in doing so, some must be under or over torqued to ensure that they align?

 

[Rorschach]

Personally I much prefer Pozi drive over anything else I have used.

 

[voyager]

I have had a few stainless ones snap,
however this is a combination of stainless being a fairly brittle material and the impact driver now being in common usage, back when it was a stanley screwdriver (lost so much finger skin to those things over the years) then everyone got cordless drills and the level of head stripping went up, now the once rare impact screwdriver is in common usage , cheap screws just dont stand a chance.