Planes

[Paul Hannaby]

I recently acquired a box full of planes along with a load of wood I bought, some were a bit the worse for wear so I've started cleaning them up. I usually make round stuff so I'm no plane expert! Perhaps someone here can answer my questions?

One of the planes (the one on the left) is a Stanley Bailey No. 4. What exactly is the forward / backward adjustment for? I understand it moves the blade forwards and backwards but what is the purpose of this?
Next question - The big plane is a Record No. 7 which also has the forward/backward adjuster. So far all I've done with this is to scrape of any loose rust and give it a go over with wire wool / wire brush. Would it be worth using some abrasive to clean the surface better or is what I've done good enough? There doesn't seem to be any significant pitting or surface damage.
Third question - The third plane from the left looks to me like it should have a handle at the bacK, is this right? I don't know much about it other than it says "Norris London 61" on the front and on the back it says 461.
Now for the tough one - the fourth plane has no makers marks that I can see. Does anyone have any idea what it is? On the blade I can make out the name "Hearnshaw Bros, John Bull, Cast Steel, Sheffield". Also, this one is probably the worst condition, the blade is rusted in to the body so I've applied a bit of 3 in 1 oil in the hope it will free it up before I get too heavy handed with it! It also looks like someone has been bashing the top of the blade, which I doubt does anything for the flatness of the blade!

I've included an extra photo of the third and fourth planes if that helps at all!

There are also a couple of large wooden block planes and a couple of small ones I have yet to take apart. Are these worth cleaning up or are planes like this just decorative doorstops these days! :wink:

Any clues on any of the above would be appreciated.

 

[adidat]

there all worthless, will give you a tenner for the lot to take them to the dump. :---)


some very nice planes there especially the norris one. by the looks of it the planes is missing the tote (or handle at the back) this wouldnt be beyond the realms of possibility to make a new one for it.

adidat

 

[MickCheese]

Have a look here:

http://www.oldtools.co.uk/tools/norris-planes.html

Mick

 

[MickCheese]

And here with a guide price of £200 - £300.

http://www.tennants.co.uk/Catalogue/Lots/85740.aspx

Mick

 

[AndyT]

Jammy pipper!

The two infill planes are the ones that will appeal to collectors and serious users (cough!) such as the regular readers of the hand tools forum.

Have a look at threads like this https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/keep-your-eyes-open-on-fleabay-t45703.html?hilit=norris to see a similar ugly duckling turn into a swan.

The other two are useful basic planes which everyone needs.

But to answer your question, the movable frog lets you set the plane with a widish mouth, which you need if you have set the blade to take a thick shaving, but still be able to close it up tight, which helps with thin shavings on difficult grain.

And if that was the quality of the metal planes, let's see the woodies as well!

 

[Jason Pettitt]

heehee

The two on the right are indeed the kind of thing collectors swoon over. Shame the Norris is beat up (you're not just missing the handle, but also the depth adjuster ). The brand on the fourth plane blade is likely just the blade and may not be related to the plane body. Traditionally the maker's mark, if there is one, would be found on the brass lever cap like with the Norris. Yours looks to be plain, but it might be worth a closer look.

Okay - The Record #4 and the two infills are smoothing planes - they're for getting a really nice smooth finish on the show surfaces of your work. The #7 is a 'jointer' and is for getting your work flat and true - useful if you want parts to fit together accurately.

The adjustment on the #4 and #7 with the wheel is for depth of cut. Thin cuts give the best finish but if your goal is to remove material or get a board flat it'll take forever - so you'd dial in a thicker cut for those jobs.

Beneath the adjustment wheel is another screw that moves the entire blade assembly back and forward (you also have to loosen two bolts under the blade) - thus changing the width of the mouth - the gap where the blade pokes through the sole of the plane. Generally speaking you want the mouth to be as thin as possible, but not so thin that you can't pass shavings through without getting clogged. A thin mouth helps prevent the plane ripping wood fibres and leaving nasty marks called tear-out.

 

[woodbloke]

Wait till Jimi sees those infils! :lol: :lol: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: - Rob

 

[Paul Hannaby]

Thanks for the info so far and thanks for the explanation on the adjustment too.

I had another go at the fourth one and the oil had penetrated enough for me to remove the blade. On the backing plate I could just make out the name "Mathieson & Son, Glasgow" with a crescent mark. No sign of any makers marks on the body of the plane though.

I just had a dig through the rest of the tools just in case the handle was in there somewhere but no luck I'm afraid That may be a restoration project for someone but not me! I've got enough "restoration" projects already

I'll take a photo of the wooden planes and will post it later.

 

[AndyT]

That's good news - judging from the 1899 catalogue you may well have one of these:

which was offered in 4 sizes (1 3/4"; 2"; 2 1/8"; 2 1/4") at prices from 18s 6d to 19s 6d and was described as "wrought steel, dovetailed, fitted with rosewood, gun metal lever."

Beautifully, skilfully made - see RichardT's thread on his w-i-p to get an idea of the skill and effort that went into each one.

 

[Paul Hannaby]

It does look very much like that one so you could be right. I guess it's worth carrying on with the de-rusting then?

 

[Jason Pettitt]

Mathieson would be a definitely maybe, but I'm not wholly convinced you've got a precise match there.

Whatever it is, don't stop the de-rusting.

 

[jimi43]

I will leave the discussion of the two on the left to the Bailey experts...they are in good nick though for their age.

The Norris is in poor shape but would still fetch quite a bit on FleaBay for someone interested in restoring it...I wouldn't do anything at all to it yourself as you could end up devaluing it further in the eyes of serious collectors (not users necessarily) who see these things in a different light....

It does need a depth adjuster which isn't a major problem but it appears not to have a Norris iron like this one....

......which is a problem as they are quite expensive all on their own. It's not one of the more sought after models of Norris planes...but it is still interesting to collectors...particularly in the USA.....

The one on the far right is probably a Scottish plane of one maker or another...maybe a Spiers...some of them don't have markings on the lever cap...others say Spiers of Ayr...Matthieson is almost certainly only the iron maker. Does it have faint markings on the lever cap? It could also not be Scottish at all as many of the "makers" just put their names to Slater planes made in London... #-o

These go for about £80 or so on FleaBay in that condition...maybe more...but again I wouldn't touch it if you don't intend using it...you may do more harm than good.

If you want more info PM me with more pictures, in particualar close-ups of the lever cap and other angles so I can narrow it down. I have one very much like that one...and it is superb as a user...by no means a doorstop and will out perform the No.4 smoother that you have by far if properly tuned.

My one is the third one from the left:

Hope this helps somewhat.

Jimi