Plane soles

[No skills]

Hello!

For whatever random reason I picked up my neglected #4 1/2 earlier and thought I'd see how flat the sole was, a quick colour in with a marker and a minute of rubbing down on a flat surface has revealed a pretty flat sole.
The only slight dishing there is comes before the mouth (maybe for an inch and a half), I do mean slight as well - cant be bothered with a feeler gauge but I cant imagine getting much in there with a straight edge put across it (which I did).

So question to the plane experts here, is a tiny amount of dishing in that location a problem at all? I'm a very occasional hand tool (read plane!) user so wouldn't know if its be causing me problems or not

I'm almost tempted to give the poor old thing a proper tune up, think I've only been putting that off for 3 years or so.

Cheers.

 

[woodbrains]

Hello,

Stricklty speaking, the area in front of the mouth should contact the wood surface, as the pressure exerted, prevents cracks telegraphing ahead of the lifted shaving. In other words prevents tear out. In reality if there is no problems in the timbers you use, then there is no problem. Also, close set cap,irons will prevent tear out so mitigate a fault in the sole. Personally I would flatten a smoother, since the shavings are thin and a hollow in front of the mouth of a thou or two is more significant than on a jack which may be taking shaving of a few thou more. Also, if the hollow is slight, then it wouldn't take long to correct it. But as I said, if it isn't causing trouble, and your not inclined, leave it.

Mike.

 

[MIGNAL]

A hollow isn't a problem providing the area just ahead of the mouth is contacting the wood. It can be a very small amount. It certainly has an effect on the performance of wooden planes and I doubt that metal planes are any different.

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Hello!

For whatever random reason I picked up my neglected #4 1/2 earlier and thought I'd see how flat the sole was, a quick colour in with a marker and a minute of rubbing down on a flat surface has revealed a pretty flat sole.
The only slight dishing there is comes before the mouth (maybe for an inch and a half), I do mean slight as well - cant be bothered with a feeler gauge but I cant imagine getting much in there with a straight edge put across it (which I did).

So question to the plane experts here, is a tiny amount of dishing in that location a problem at all? I'm a very occasional hand tool (read plane!) user so wouldn't know if its be causing me problems or not

I'm almost tempted to give the poor old thing a proper tune up, think I've only been putting that off for 3 years or so.

Cheers.

The symptoms suggest that the plane was used and experienced normal wear and tear. The area in front of the mouth will experience most wear over time as this is where most pressure is exerted.

However, this area is also the most important for reliability of performance. As the mouth wears, the blade requires more projection to contact the surface of the wood. there will be differences in performance at the start of a cut and in the middle of the board.

If you use a closed up chipbreaker, tearout will not be an issue. However, if you do not, the hollow effectively increases the mouth size and performance deteriorates.

If the plane was mine, I would be flattening the sole to remove the hollow in front of the mouth.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[AndyT]

It's possible that you have localised wear in the middle because you mostly use the plane to work on the edge of relatively thin timber, an inch thick or less.
If you carry on just doing that your timber will fit into the worn area and all is well.
If you try working a broad surface, broader than the plane, it might not be as good.
But as you say, if you are getting the results you need, that's all that matters.

 

[David C]

As Mike has said, If the front of the throat is flat and the hollow is in front of this flat area, no problem.

Assuming it does not reach the front.

David

 

[No skills]

Thank you all!

The dish is right in front of the mouth/at the mouth. Given the advice those present have given I think I will spend a little time on the sole and just flatten it a bit more. I'm using some left over floor sanding sheets (@ 80 grit) as the abrasive and its holding up very well and is a fairly good size.

As I've started making an effort with this plane perhaps I should go a bit further and fix the loose tote and refinish it and the front handle
Then there's the chipbreaker which is a poor fit on the iron...

Could somebody point me to a link on tuning planes please, might as well go the whole hog and make sure everything fits as it should.

Once again thanks to the collective.

 

[tomasg]

Hello
Sounds like you have a decent reference plate since you've got feelers ? , and
Guessing that your plane was fully set up tension wise ( levercap nice and snug but still able to adjust blade projection )
and blade retracted when you did the rub test ?

I've noticed a lot of videos didn't mention some things that I've experienced with regards to sole lapping . ..
Like if you don't clean the paper after every stroke you will be wearing an uneven pattern ,
I have noticed that rubbing in a backwards and forwards fashion will introduce a heel and toe rounding.

The last sole i was lapping .. A no.8 seemed like the metal was more difficult to sand on one side
and i had to lean on one side significantly more ,
you could see it thicker on one side looking head on at it
I always look for thick soles when ebay plane shopping and ...
I always switcharoo the plane around anyway every time to avoid repetitive wear patterns , so i took my time with this one
making sure not to lean the wrong side (homer)

On a bigger less important scale ,if you had some regular steel plate about the same width as a sandpaper roll ,
and you were flattening it quickly enough...
Using an angle grinder , marker/machinists Prussian blue and your flat reference plate with sandpaper
you would be hollowing the middle out with the slightest skim from the grinder and marking again with the ink ,
Not two seconds on the paper and i turn the sole upside-down and have a look ....
Eventually when you get it perfect you would notice if you inked it again and took a look after 2 seconds lapping
on the clean paper it would only be the edges where the ink was removed .
Thus proves that lapping should be done with care and not ,in an over and back scrubbing fashion.

Against my words now being contradictory
One guy on youtube ...David w ... mentions that this slight rounding of the heel and toe makes it easier to push
the plane compared to a sole that's dead flat .. think the reason being that the dead flat sole removes the candle wax
you should be rubbing on the sole for waaay less friction ..
Saying that while mentioning he still has a LN jointer.

Furthermore Ive noticed on one youtuber to round the sides of the plane,,, kind of like a cambering of the sole ?
I'm sure their is a use for this somewhere ??? ...but if ya like using a plane that can take full width thin shavings
and don't wish to fight with your plane (although i can't say ive tried molesting a plane like that )
I would avoid that idea ...

Check out david w 's channel and look at what results he can get with a double iron set for a smoother cut.
the shavings dont roll up or crinkle..
they come up flat out of the plane ..into the air ... I had not seen this before until just recently ...
Cant find it , but theirs a video where he demonstrates it with a woodie
planing some wild stuff in his bench vice .

Mitch peacock has a long video on restoring a no.4 .....
" Restoration of a Stanley No.4 Bench Plane "
Had not the time to watch it, though his plane looks good .

Good luck
Tomas