Plane purchase dilemna

[graween]

Hi all.

I'm posting to have your toughts about these two planes. As I'm planing a purchase.
I know it sounds there different, but ...

The small rabbeting (like LN 60 1/2R) plane is only a little larger than a large shoulder plane (ex LN 73). Both can be used to clean tenon cheeks.
They could both be used to clean tenon shoulder, although the shoulder plane is more designed for that.

They both can be used also to make some small raised panels. But in this case the length of the big shoulder plane is in my mind more an asset.
Also they can both be used for other stuff.

Now I already own a Stanley #92, and a 60 1/2. So will one of the two help me better with tenons or should I keep my cash to buy something else as I don't need them (in addition toe the plane I already have)?

For exemple I'm also spotting LV BU Jointer plane (which probably could be more useful). Or LV Side rebate skew plane (but don't want to buy twe 2 of them ... Will it be an improvement over my #78 )?
Should I keep going with my #92 and regular 60 1/2 for cleaning tenons and rebate ?

I also have a Stanley #78 for rebates, but usually go with a router (my hand tool exception :roll and clean only with #78 or #92

I already own the following planes:
Stanley 60 1/2, LN 60 1/2 (with low bedding, but different honing angles for blades)
Stanley #4, #5, #8 (mainly for flattening, first smoothing large panels),
Stanley #78 (not really pleased with ...never had good results)
Stanley #80
LV BU Smoother, and Jack.
Stanley #79 and #71.
Stanley #50.
Stanley #92 (averagely pleased).

Instead of the rabbet on shoulder what would you go for ? What I'm missing ?

Thanks for opinions.

 

[dunbarhamlin]

Now I already own a Stanley #92, and a 60 1/2. So will one of the two help me better with tenons or should I keep my cash

Yes - you have a wonderful tool languishing on the shelf for tenon cheeks and grooves - your Stanley 71. Much better at the job than a shoulder/rebate plane.

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

will one of the two help me better with tenons

The router plane is my tool of choice for tuning tenons. This will get them parallel and even.

If you need to fine tune the cheeks, then use a rasp or joinery float.

If you need to remove a lot of waste fast, such as after a glued on veneer repair, then a rabbet block plane is very useful.

If you want a better shoulder plane than the #92 - I really did not like mine - then get either the 3/4" Veritas Medium as an allrounder or the newly released 1/2" Veritas Small, which is a good size for most common sized shoulders.

If you want a plane for raised panels, the Veritas skew rabbet is a good one - or, better still, get Philly to make you a custom raised panel plane.

Link to my brand new article on mortice-and-tenon joints, where some of the above are demonstrated: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/AHandcutMorticeandTenonPrimer-BlindMortice.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[graween]

Hi,
Well, the answers are fast in this forum !

It's true I've read many things about using the 71 for tenon, but never gave it a try. I should than.
I also own some cabinet rasp, and file, and sometime used them.

So what is the best use for the small rabet plane ?

Derek, everybody seems to say that the medium LV is fine. Very often there are post from people saying the larger models (from LV or LN) don't get used very often. Sometimes event post for selling them. Although in my mind the larger the more versatile ? For example for saw we often want a longer saw because it makes it easier to control the cut. What makes that this appently is not the case with the shoulder plane ? Too much weight ?

Keep the answers comming.
Thank you.

PS: I read your article Derek, excellent as usual !

 

[woodbloke]

Hi,

... the medium LV is fine. Very often there are post from people saying the larger models (from LV or LN) don't get used very often. Sometimes event post for selling them.

Thank you.

I had a large LN shoulder plane and sold it a while back to another forum member. I found it just too large and a bit unwieldy for the sort of work I do. I think Ed Sutton also found himself in the same sort of position and sold his as well. I now use the Veritas medium shoulder plane and the small 1/2" blade bronze LN (with the rosewood wedge), both of which are much more suited to the way I work.
For trimming shoulders though I don't use a shoulder plane at all...a nice sharp 25mm LN chisel does it for me...I have to push down though - Rob

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Hi Graween

Just as a long tenon saw makes it easier to align the sawcut, so a shoulder plane is aided in its work by good registration.

A shoulder plane is not for tuning cheeks, not even a wide one. It can be used to do so (and I am guilty of this myself) but its high centre of gravity makes it ungainly and tippy. You are far better off with a low-centre-of-gravity plane, such as either a rabbet block plane or a skew block plane. However you still run into the problem of deciding if you are planing a parallel cheek. Hence the advantage of a router plane.

A shoulder plane registers on the (now parallel) cheek. This is aided by its wide body. A thicker, wider (larger) shoulder plane is not going to register any better than a narrower version. The advantage of the larger shoulder plane is in the extra mass, which converts to increased momentum - useful in harder end grain. The downside is that a larger shoulder plane will obscure the cut more. A narrower plane offers better visibility and balance. Keep the blade sharp.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Mikey R]

That was a great article Derek!

Im about to cut some rather large tennons myself, I was tempted to buy a shoulder plane but now Im going to use the rather cheap Axminster rebate plane I already own, useful as its got the depth stop. Its only pine after all.

 

[Alf]

I also have a Stanley #78 for rebates, but usually go with a router (my hand tool exception :roll and clean only with #78 or #92

<snip>

Stanley #78 (not really pleased with ...never had good results)

Well to me that's answered your own question - you want a better rebate plane.

For what it's worth, I started with a Record #73 on the same "bigger is better" principle, and larger shoulder planes are perfectly usable tools, but once I bought the Veritas medium the Record hardly ever got used because the smaller plane better suited the size of work I (used to) do. If you expect to be needing the extra width for larger tenons, then maybe go for a big one. If you go down that route at all.

Cheers, Alf

 

[dunbarhamlin]

For rebates you want a fillister. For fillisters just shout Philly, sir!
(Only half tongue in cheek)

 

[graween]

Hi all.

In fact I'm pretty well set up as it seems. Alf (good to see some posts from you again) and Dunbar are probably right, I'm probably more missing a good rebate plane, although the LV Medium is very appealing to me !

Now the question in my mind is should I go for a medium LV and sell the #92, or try to tune better the #92 and buy a moving fillister or good rebate plane, or the big Shoulder plane.
Alf I'm afraid, it's hard to make nice long rebate with a shoulder plane, without a fence.

For rebate/fillisters, there's the Philly one, or the skew Veritas.
But I'm wondering if the fact that it is skew won't bother me sometimes, when the grain is tricky, and don't want to go for both a right and left version (too expensive for the usage I have as a leisure).
As does it do compare to a straight version like a stanley #78.

Thank you again for your ideas.

 

[Paul Chapman]

For rebate/fillisters, there's the Philly one, or the skew Veritas.
But I'm wondering if the fact that it is skew won't bother me sometimes, when the grain is tricky, and don't want to go for both a right and left version (too expensive for the usage I have as a leisure).
As does it do compare to a straight version like a stanley #78.

About a year ago I wrote a review of the Veritas skew rebate plane, which you might like to read https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/view ... te&start=0

One of the best planes Veritas have produced IMHO. It knocks spots off the #78/078/778. No need to buy right- and left-hand versions in my view.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Evergreen]

Derek

Many thanks for the excellent mortise and tenon tutorial.

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

You are very welcome.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Alf]

graween, have you done anything to tune up the #78 at all? It's not such a numerous model of plane for no reason - I reach for my Marples version of it without a qualm, despite something of a range of alternatives. Of course you may have a rogue example that'll never really "sing" but it might be worth a try if you haven't already.

Another thing that strikes me is with the #50 you could run a groove at the point where you want your rebates and then hog out the rest with the #78. Indeed you can do the whole thing with the #50 if you fancy, up to a point.

All this assumes you're running rebates with the grain. If you're going across grain, something like a skew rebate is going to be worth some very serious consideration.

Cheers, Alf

 

[graween]

Hi Alf.

Right I never tried to tune the 78. In fact I bought it a long time ago, for a project I ended doing an other way. I bought it new (this was hte beginning of my drift toward hand tools) and was dissapointed by the quality of it (to say the less).

I suppose I should try to tune it up. I'll give it a try.

I never tought about using the 50 the way you suggest. It's true that I could try (I know a good site that has a section about this kind of plane :wink: ). But it's hard to set the fence correctly on my #50. Also I'm missing the small cutter adjustement screw, and I'm looking for one since I bought it.
I mostly use it for grooves. I should also give it a try for rebates.

Finaly it's sure that I should get a fillister for cross grain (want to build one myself, but will probably never have the time for that).

Cheers.

 

[mahking51]

Hi Graween
What screw are you missing on the 50?
I have been known to have a plane or two and some odd bits lying about...
Might be able to help you out.
Cheers,
Martin

 

[graween]

Hi Martin,

I'm missing the small cutter adjustement screw. The one that you screw to hold in place the 2 smallest cutters. Because the casting piece is too wide.

I'v been looking for one since a long time. If you have one I'll be more thant happy to get it !

You can seen i on Patrick's Blood an Gore : http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan7.htm#num50 the second picture on the left shows it in place.

Thanks.