Pitch Pine Kitchen Worktops ?

[Scrums]

What does the panel feel about the above?

I got a sniff of a kitchen job today from a customer literally 200yds down the road from the workshop, and seeing some lumps of PP in the workshop they thought that they'd be good for worksurfaces. I was a bit sceptical at first but on googling around i found this:http://touchwoodkitchen.co.uk/index.php?f=data_worktops&a=0 These guys seem to think it's a good idea, well, they would, wouldn't they?

Has anyone got any hands on experience?

Chris.

 

[Anonymous]

No experience, but the googled link suggests it's OK. Looked nice in the link

 

[Scrit]

Chris

Not so sure I'd like the task of cleaning them up. PP clogs abrasives in no time flat. Also how were you thinking of finishing it? Should be hard enough, though, providing it's the recycled stuff you're talking about.

Scrit

 

[DomValente]

tried using for kitchen cabinet doors once and Scrit is right clogs everything

 

[Scrums]

Hmmm.......Didn't seem to clog too much on the piece I tested, though I am a bit worried how well glue will work.

Seems to be very little resin in this lot.

Definitely reclaimed - http://www.works-in-wood.co.uk/pitch_pine.html

 

[Anonymous]

I once made a small table top from pieces of pitch pine. They were sawn out of reclaimed joists then planed to about about 2 inches deep and 1 inch thick. It laminated up fine with cascamite, its as dense & tough almost as oak; I finished with a fine set plane and danish oil coat's/scothcbrite pad, I use "s" paper as little as I possibly can. Granted my table was a lot smaller thaan a worktop would be, but it is a beautiful under rated timber, the effort might be worth it. It must be the resin that clog's up papers is it?

 

[Gary H]

They look really nice. I'm going to be re-doing our kitchen doors and worktops later this year so that may help me too. If you decide to use it, please let me know how it works out. (Silly thing to say - I daresay there will be WIP's etc. #-o )

Running the risk of sounding a complete numpty here but what's the difference between 'pitch' and 'regular' pine?

Pass the pointy hat with the big D on it please

Gary

 

[Scrums]

no numpty - I'd never had the opportunity to use/get any till a few weeks ago ( being a soft southerner - Bracknell, till 2002 - everything down there is concrete and glass )

So far it seems to be about as hard and dense as Oak, possibly heavier, less knots (..than character grade anyway) Planed up 50 feet x 4 sides today - paint stripping, basically with blades ready for a regrind and saw 2 knots - errm + 2 nails - ouch!

 

[Gary H]

cool - not the nails you understand - the planing.
So is it a reclaim-only material? And the density, is that due to aging or a characteristic of the timber? I assume this as I've never come across any pine that wouldn't wield to a fingernail let alone a decent plane iron. Could do with some of that stuff meself. have to keep my eyes open :wink:

Great dog in the sig BTW - kinda reminds me of our Meg :

http://img407.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img1009uq9.jpg

 

[Fecn]

I believe Pitch Pine is a hybrid pine that grows well in harsh conditions (such as desert or fire). The plant uses resin as a protective mechanism to trap moisture, and the fact it's so resinous preserves it from decay. They used to use it for making ships.

 

[woodbloke]

I wonder if a natural 'scrubbed' finish (advocated by Alan Peters) would be better on this timber bearing in mind how its going to be used - Rob

 

[Scrit]

It must be the resin that clog's up papers is it?

Yes. And your tooling, and your machinery....... Gets everywhere and sticks like sh*t. I suggest if/when you do sand it go for an open coat paper - it will clog less quickly - but be prepared to have to wash out your belts in turps (another reason for using a belt sander over a ROS). Also wipe over your machinery after doing any work - that "sawdust" can solidify overnight or become sticky on a warm day or as a result of machining and solidify into something with the colour of toffee and the hardness of iron. The local way to clean-out dust extraction pipes and guards caked with this stuff is to set fire to them outside in the yard and then get then shot blasted and repainted!

So is it a reclaim-only material?

Generally, yes. Pitch pine was imported from first growth North American forestry in the 19th century but by WWI the supply had pretty much been exhausted, and in any case its' main use was for beams in mills and factories (again new building petered out just before WWI), which with mill demolitions in the North has given us a constant supply since the 1970s. However, the number of mills being dropped is now very few (they've just about all been asset stripped) so in a few years time this resource will also disappear.

And the density, is that due to aging or a characteristic of the timber?

As this stuff was all originally dropped in the forest 100 to 200 years ago it has had time to dry out and harden somewhat (the resin solidifies) - but the resin and also any included hardware such as screws can badly chip planer knives meaning that shops who do a lot not only have loads of spare knives, but that they often have an in-house blade grinder to handle the nicks.

Scrit

 

[Anonymous]

Interesting facts Scrit. Its almost like pitch pine is a natural version of Pekah's wood saturated with oil. Did they ever make special grade tar from pitch pine?

 

[dickm]

The lychgate frame at a local church was pitchpine, and I used some reclaimed PP to replace the rotten bits - the original must have been there a good 100 years with minimal maintenance. Also used reclaimed stuff to make up some cupboards to match the existing pitch pine in a house my daughter used to have. As Scrit says, it's inclined to clog and stick to planer surfaces, so regular waxing of the tables is essential. And you need to watch out for nails. But it smells lovely while you are working it.
There was a guy somewhere near Lancaster who was trading reclaimed pitch pine until fairly recently, but I don't know if he is still in business.

 

[Scrit]

There was a guy somewhere near Lancaster who was trading reclaimed pitch pine until fairly recently, but I don't know if he is still in business.

In fact trhere's quite a few people in the Lancashire cotton area and the Yorkshire heavy woollen district who handle recycled pitcjh pine.

Scrit

 

[dickm]

One thing to watch out for with reclaimed pitch pine is the exact source. I picked up some from a local guy, who happened to mention that it came from a tannery, which rang some alarm bells. Got one of our lab folks to analyse some shavings for chromium, and it was off the scale, so not a good idea to machine it, given that chromium dust is probably quite nasty. I ended up using the pieces as surround for a gravelled area in the garden, and if nothing else, it should last well.

 

[Scrit]

One thing to watch out for with reclaimed pitch pine is the exact source. I picked up some from a local guy, who happened to mention that it came from a tannery, which rang some alarm bells.

Very true. It should perhaps be mentioned that asbestos was commonly spun and woven in textile mills and that Turner & Newall (the big asbestos people) were a widely spread company in the 1940s to 1960s with many mills in both Lancashire and Yorkshire. Fortunately if you buy from a reputable source they'll know where it came from

Scrit

 

[Scrums]

Most of the stuff from the old mills & factories is turned into PP flooring - up to £ 60 /cube (pro rata) I think you'll find.

There are still a few bits and pieces left in Lancaster to come down, and a few guys trading it.

If anyone wants some and can travel - pm me (...this is not an advert my price would be cost - just trying to help out.

Chris.

 

[Shivers]

Assuming everything that all the others have mentioned works out, no matter which finish you do the top surface with i would certainly use a poly varnish on the underneath(not seen),

Does pitch pine even hold a finish very well?, lke somebody already mentioned i thought PP always had a scrub finish(cant see oil really being suitable)no penetration,but since i've never done this before i really wouldn't know.

Upon machining you may uncover some nice & ugly black resin pockets.

sounds like a job for polyurethane glue to me ---with the glue edges being washed down with a strong solvent.

regards

 

[dickm]

Does pitch pine even hold a finish very well?, lke somebody already mentioned i thought PP always had a scrub finish(cant see oil really being suitable)no penetration,but since i've never done this before i really wouldn't know.

Traditionally, it was almost always varnished. The stuff I did for my daughter took varnish OK, and there was no problem with flaking or anything. But that was in dry situation. Not sure what would happen with a worksurface that was regularly wetted.