oilstone id

[nabs]

given the general enthusiasm for Washita oilstones I have got myself one to find out what all the fuss was about. Or at least I hope it is one!

There were a few fragments of the original label left - enough to tell it is a Norton stone, but not enough to be sure what kind. The advertiser described it as a Norton No 1 Washita. Can any oilstone fans tell me for sure?

D_W I have watched your videos on oilstones (all of them!) and there do seem to be similarities with some of your Washitas but not so much that I did not want to double check.

label:

oilstone:

d_w in action:

[youtube]TgQ1xhMtoBQ[/youtube]

 

[Trafalgar]

... and its Ego and Superego?

 

[adrspach]

Where are you in Herts? From the pictures I would say you have what you wanted but also I have learned that those pictures have to be accurate in the first place.

 

[bugbear]

given the general enthusiasm for Washita oilstones I have got myself one to find out what all the fuss was about. Or at least I hope it is one!

There were a few fragments of the original label left - enough to tell it is a Norton stone, but not enough to be sure what kind. The advertiser described it as a Norton No 1 Washita. Can any oilstone fans tell me for sure?

Wow - that's very clean!

BugBear

 

[D_W]

Definitely a pike mine washita, even without the confirmation of the label. Whether it's a no 1 or lily white, not sure. That's mostly or all cosmetic grading, anyway, and it should be an excellent stone.

If I had to guess by looking, I'd say no 1 would be the likely grade. I haven't had any luck cleaning off labels, they usually just yield the junk on them plus all of the printed information at the same time.

(This morning, I shaved off of a razor sharpened only with a stone like this. There is a process you can do with these that goes back and forth between stone and linen and takes about the same time as any other. The shave lacked nothing, which is notable, because setting and sharpening a razor is a lot more demanding than sharpening a chisel due to the acute angle of the razor and the need for it to catch a hair and sever it without holding the hair down against the face and pushing hard.)

The point of this isn't that you should plan to use your stone for razors, but that you should spend some time sharpening with it. I was nonplussed with mine the first time I used it (great - an "in between stone" that really isn't good at anything, just OK at a lot of things). The more time you spend using it, the better you get with it, and no sharpening method is easier or faster and a hollow grind and a washita only with just a bare leather stropping. The more you use it, the more you'll like it. I think so far, I have probably tried somewhere around $20k worth of stones (not because of need, the first stones i had made things sharp, but i have learned how to buy stones and flip them so that it doesn't really cost me anything), and the stone I always come back to is the one in the picture of the video above that's got a little bit of a bow in the side. It could be any washita, though - that's just the one I like best.

 

[ED65]

Wow - that's very clean!

Ain't it just?!

I haven't had any luck cleaning off labels, they usually just yield the junk on them plus all of the printed information at the same time.

Mind if I ask which methods you've tried?

 

[D_W]

Generally shaving the gunk off, as well as trying to remove it in layers by oiling it (figuring oil would take it off given that it's probably oil that is dried on - just which type, you never know).

I've been able to lightly clean some labels that aren't that bad, but if they are bad, I've not had great luck.

Actually, I've not had really very good luck with labels at all - on a stone like these where the stone gets used heavily, sooner or later, oil works its way between the stone and the label and the label floats off. I've noticed a LOT of boxes that have the labels affixed to them (by a prior owner), but I don't like that, because it means the stones can be switched around like a shell game and you'll never really know other than by likelihood if the stone in the box matches the label.

My first lilywhite stone had a label that floated right off after about month of use outside of a case - a potentially expensive mistake - I sold it immediately while there was a pattern on the back of the stone that matched the detached label. I think a tight fit in a case is probably the only way to ensure the label will stay on (tight enough that the oil will never get to the bottom of the stone).

Regardless, the stone above is a very nice looking stone - label or not. I wouldn't try to clean it. It looks like it was stood on edge in a case, but the top doesn't match that description (it looks like it has sway in the top, and you'd expect to see it on the side of it was upright in a case). Maybe different periods of use.

Certainly open to suggestions in cleaning labels. I no longer buy labeled stones as a matter of practice due to the price, but I'd pick one up if I found it in the wild.

 

[nabs]

my attempt to excavate under the oil that was obscuring what was left of the label failed also - assuming there was anything left under the oil it did not survive my (fairly careful) scraping. In the end i gave the whole thing a scrub with fairy liquid and it came up like new (sans label).

I sharpened a couple of plane irons today but i will need to experiment some more to draw any conclusions since the way I have been sharpening is to do most of the work on a coarse diamond stone and then only the last handful of strokes on my other natural stone (slate) followed by a strop. I swapped the slate for the washita and although it felt a bit better (less slidy, if that is a word) there was no discernable difference in the end result.

I am quite interested to see if I can use it successfully to do both the grinding and honing so I'll experiment with that next week.

 

[D_W]

my attempt to excavate under the oil that was obscuring what was left of the label failed also - assuming there was anything left under the oil it did not survive my (fairly careful) scraping. In the end i gave the whole thing a scrub with fairy liquid and it came up like new (sans label).

I sharpened a couple of plane irons today but i will need to experiment some more to draw any conclusions since the way I have been sharpening is to do most of the work on a coarse diamond stone and then only the last handful of strokes on my other natural stone (slate) followed by a strop. I swapped the slate for the washita and although it felt a bit better (less slidy, if that is a word) there was no discernable difference in the end result.

I am quite interested to see if I can use it successfully to do both the grinding and honing so I'll experiment with that next week.

With a thin laminated iron, you will be able to do that. The leather strop will provide more improvement in the washita edge than it does with a hone slate due to the nature of the wire edge. If your strop is clean and the washita is cutting quickly, you can be very brisk on the strop at an angle slightly higher than the honing angle and then flat on the back.

As time goes on, it should equal the hone slate, but be able to do coarser work.

Nothing wrong with the diamond and slate routine.

 

[ED65]

I would resist any urge to try to mechanically remove the gunk until you've done something to weaken it. FWIW I'd be inclined to go at it with solvents first, avoiding anything with much water in it because it'll swell the paper and may float the label off.

My first port of call would be white spirit and I'd give it some time to work, so soak some scrunched up kitchen paper in it, place it on the surface like a poultice and leave it for an hour or more to do its thing.

If that doesn't do enough to allow the gunk to be brushed away next solvent to try would be meths. D_W, unfortunately you take a slightly higher risk with DA because the adulterants over there aren't always the same as used in meths, and some are stronger solvents. Still a smaller risk than the jump to acetone would be, since acetone is most definitely a solvent for the majority of printing inks. Another word of warning: alcohols will weaken the bond of some of the glues used.

D_W, if MS doesn't do enough you have the option to try toluene or xylene which we can't easily get over here.

 

[memzey]

What gunk? That stone is spotless. Just put some thin oil on it and use it! My sharpening is done on a lily whit Washita followed by a black ark and the Washita is great as a stone that is fairly fast but also fairly fine. You’ve done well with that purchase now put it to use!

 

[nabs]

I think ED65's comments relate to techniques to preserve the label, rather than just insulting my (pristine) oilstone . I was using it earlier today, btw!

 

[memzey]

Good man! Thats the way to find out what you need to know about the stone. What were you sharpening and how long did it take you to raise a wire edge? Was the edge you were left with good to go or did it need more work?

 

[custard]

try toluene or xylene which we can't easily get over here.

How easy do you want?

They're both available on UK Ebay.

 

[nabs]

I have just being using it to touch up smoother irons as that is all I've needed to do since I got it last week - thus it is a bit hard to compare it to anything. Out of habit I always use a strop, but when I next need to do one I'll try it without a strop, and also grind the bevel on a plane iron so I can compare better.

 

[D_W]

An example where I couldn't improve the label. See the attached picture for an example of a lilywhite stone. However, this stone has absolutely nothing else to indicate that it was lilywhite grade.

The "ARD" is the end label on a lilywhite that either says "medium hard" or "Fine and Hard". The color is different than I've seen elsewhere and use of oil to soften the goop and then an attempt to remove most of it was unsuccessful. It's slightly cleaner now and slightly less prominent. The stone itself is relatively clear with no significant mottling, about the size of a very old lilywhite and fine enough for a razor in skilled hands. I think it will be the first washita stone I've ever bought and flipped for a profit (the price with shipping was $40 from canada, or with more resolution in price and shipping, the seller asked $18 for it).

A cycle of solvents as mentioned above may have been more successful, but I'm getting too old to spend much time on these and have had many unsuccessful attempts.

In the video that was linked earlier in this thread, I had a deep rock coticule that George Wilson gave me in trade. It was a beautiful stone with a really nifty label. I used it to set a razor (it turned out to be a coarse stone, despite the grading) and put it on a stand in my bathroom. There must've been just a little bit of water on the stone, as the next morning, the label came off. Probably 75-100 years that the label remained on the stone, but one use from me, and it was off the next day.

So I don't do too much with labels any longer, but if I was a collector, I certainly would.

 

[ED65]

What gunk? That stone is spotless.

No kidding ;-)

Wow - that's very clean!

Ain't it just?!

 

[ED65]

D_W, is sticking a detached label back on considered an underhanded tactic or something in stone circles??

 

[D_W]

No, it's fine, especially on stones like these that really arent worth that much, but they're easy to lose when they're not stuck to the stone.

 

[memzey]

I have just being using it to touch up smoother irons as that is all I've needed to do since I got it last week - thus it is a bit hard to compare it to anything. Out of habit I always use a strop, but when I next need to do one I'll try it without a strop, and also grind the bevel on a plane iron so I can compare better.

Hi nabs,

Out of interest how long did it take you to raise a burr compared with your previous sharpening medium? Just to help put its performance into context. I’d describe my Washita as being a bit faster than a medium India and a bit finer than a fine India (if that makes sense). They are very good as the first stone in a two stone sharpening set up IMHO.