Oak for a conservatory

[mpooley]

Hi all
My workshop is nearing completion now and i am begining to think about my next project
I HAVE built a conservatory before and was very pleased with it, BUT i have never used oak in my life! for anything so my next two projects the aforesaid conservatory and the oak kitchen are going to be interesting!

so i have heard that some/all? oak is no good for exterior work but surely that cant be right? english or european oak has been used for centuries outside hasn't it?

so can someone enlighten me please and also possibly suggest a good supplier in the eastern counties.

 

[Keith Smith]

American white oak isn't durable enough for outdoor use but European oak is OK.

Try to make sure you don't use any sapwood, it can just disintegrate after a few years weathering.

 

[Amateurrestorer]

They used to build ships out of oak (european oak)and then try to blast holes in them with cannon balls so I guess a conservatory might just fit the bill, beware of sap wood though like my colleague states it rots and is prone to woodworm attack.

 

[DomValente]

Mike, if you have never used Oak don't do it, at least not on a project like a conservatory.
If you are intending to paint it, why oak, and if you are intending to varnish it be prepared to varnish every year, conservatories draw a lot of heat.
A straighter grained hardwood would be a better bet.

Dom

 

[Sgian Dubh]

American white oak isn't durable enough for outdoor use but European oak is OK.

Keith I suspect you simply experienced a wee mental brain burp when you posted because American white oak, principally Quercus alba, is a traditional wood for outdoor use, ships, barrels, etc., in north America. It's durable and has rather similar properties to the two main European oaks used in similar situations, i.e., Quercus robur and Quercus petraea.

American northern red oak, Quercus rubra is not durable used externally, and its cousins, such as the southern red oak, Quercus falcata are generally even less so. Slainte.

 

[JFC]

I was thinking that but then i don't think i know enough about wooditus treeus to challenge it .

 

[John McM]

What hardwoods would you recommend for external joinery. They'd have to be very durable, look good and need the least maintenance. Am I asking for the Holy Grail?
Regards

 

[Keith Smith]

[Keith I suspect you simply experienced a wee mental brain burp when you posted.

Yes, sorry about that, one of the advantages of getting old :?

You're right of course it's American red oak that's classed as non durable.

Keith

 

[Keith Smith]

Keith I suspect you simply experienced a wee mental brain burp when you posted because American white oak, principally Quercus alba, is a traditional wood for outdoor use, ships, barrels, etc., in north America. It's durable and has rather similar properties to the two main European oaks used in similar situations, i.e., Quercus robur and Quercus petraea.

I am prone to brain burps and tend to remember that I don't do something rather than why, which is a real pain at times. I remember now that I was warned off AWO for exterior use last year because the quality of timber coming into the country was extremely variable and they were finding too much sapwood to recommend it for exterior use.

Whether that is the general situation or one particular load I don't know, I live on the Welsh borders so get most of my oak from France :roll: :lol:

Keith

 

[RogerS]

Whether that is the general situation or one particular load I don't know, I live on the Welsh borders so get most of my oak from France :roll: :lol:

Keith

You're welcome to drop some off the next time you're passing :wink:

 

[DomValente]

What hardwoods would you recommend for external joinery. They'd have to be very durable, look good and need the least maintenance. Am I asking for the Holy Grail?
Regards

Probably Sapele or Idigbo, although my preference would be Idigbo.
The Holy Grail is not a sustainable resource and as I understand it quite rare

Dom

 

[mpooley]

Thanks for all replies
as I said I have heard that oak can be less durable than you imagine but I have a quandry!
I live in a converted Barn and want at least the internal timbers to be/look oak.

i like using douglas fir for joinery the exterior will be painted so i suppose i could mix the two with the oak mainly for show on the inside?

mike

 

[Sgian Dubh]

I remember now that I was warned off AWO for exterior use last year because the quality of timber coming into the country was extremely variable and they were finding too much sapwood to recommend it for exterior use.

Whether that is the general situation or one particular load I don't know, I live on the Welsh borders so get most of my oak from France, Keith

White oak sapwood is not durable used outside, but then neither is the sapwood of the European oaks particularly durable eitrher. Still your supplier would have been right in what he said if there was a lot of sapwood in a batch of imported white oak-- it wouldn't be the ideal choice for exterior use. Slainte.

 

[John McM]

Slainte,
What wood do you recommend for exterior joinery?
Cheers

 

[Sgian Dubh]

What wood do you recommend for exterior joinery?
Cheers

Traditional choices here in Europe are the native oaks that have been discussed along with such woods as some of the pitch pines, with European larch being a contemporary substitute for the pitch pine. Honduras pitch pine is good for outside use. Cedar, Cedrus atlantica is durable if you can source it as it's rather rare.

Mahogany, Swietenia macrophylla is also durable used outside as is teak and afrormosia, but people are wary nowadays of using these woods because of envirnmental concerns. Some of the Shorea's out of the far east are very durable, but you need to know what you're looking for.

On the whole for exterior work European oak would be a good choice, good quality American white oak or perhaps the mahogany mentioned above would also work. Of the softwoods I'd look hard at European larch and the Honduras pitch pine.

John Boddy Timber in Yorkshire might be a source, although I see you are in the eastern counties. Slainte.

 

[John McM]

Thanks for the advice chaps, my first choice is European oak for some windows I'd like to make. I've seen some conflicting views on the use of oak for windows etc but I guess that's the one for me.
Cheers