Not Very Fast Dovetails......

[Kalimna]

Following on from t'other dovetail thread, I made a sort-of suggestion that once my nigth shift had finished I would set to with saw and chisel to cut my first dovetail teeth.
Basically, the following few pictures are the result of that rash statement. Mr Cosman et al seem to be able to cut some lapped dovetails in less than the time it takes to boil a kettle and make a cup of tea. In my case, I made several cups of tea, all of which had time to go cold, in the time it took me to make this. Generally, I am happy with the result, and welcome any comments/criticism/suggestions from the forum. There are a few gaps between the two bits-o-wood, but at least an engineers square held up to the outside corner registers nearly perfectly.
The wood itself was a couple of offcuts from an ash board, approx 3/4".
The main problem I had was in working out where the fit was tight and needed trimming back - and I think that problem is what resulted in the gaps....
Anyhoo, onto the pictures, and hopefully they will come out well enough....

Firstly, heres a picky of the whole joint. You may notice the 'mid-procedure-design-adjustment', whereby I accidentally amputated one of the pins.

Second and third, side views of handiwork to exacting tolerances.

Lastly, a selection of the gear used. And before anyone says or thinks it - I am more than well aware that my abilities, as yet, do not come close to justifying the expense or quality of them. However I enjoy using them and the knowledge that they will last beyond my lifetime (hopefully!) is a pleasureable one. Not sure why I went into a mini-rant there, but here's the piccies...

A selection of Wenzloff saws (curly pink ivory and mun ebony) and Blue Spruce chisels (some of which can be seen on their 'Custom Tool' page of their website.

As I said, please give any thoughts, and advice, particulalry on how to identify which areas of the joint need 'fettling' and which should be left well alone.

Cheers,
Adam

 

[MikeG.]

Brave of you Adam......and it is nothing more than practise! Do lots of them, and lots of other joints, and you'll soon have it sussed!!

Mike

 

[Modernist]

Well if that's your first attempt Adam I think it's pretty good, putting the amputee to one side.

You should not need to do much in the way of post sawing adjustment. It looks as is you have sawn on the wrong side of the line for some of the pins. (i.e not waste side).

Nice kit BTW

 

[wizer]

Just shows, fancy kit don't make the maker :lol:

Well done for posting, my only attempt at dovetails was pretty much the same. Keep trying, it can only get better

 

[OPJ]

Those look very good for a first attempt. You're not bad at cutting parallel to your marked lines - I'm inclined to agree with Brian's comment that you may have cut on the wrong side a couple of times...?

Keep practising, keep cutting and it will come! :wink:

 

[johnjin]

Well I've got to go along with the previous comments. Well done for a first attempt and you are a very brave man to show your first try. As others have said its all about practice and more practice. It is also avery good exercise just for improving your saw and chisel techniques.

John

 

[Kalimna]

Thank you for your comments so far
Yes, there is a bit of nice kit there - I had previously bought a few HNT planes, and last year became engaged to my (now) wife, Marie (who in about 6 months will be less heavy to the tune of a baby ). We decided that, as she was getting a ring or two out of the deal, it would be nice for me to have something to mark the engagement - and I decided on a few nice tools. So the saws, DT chisels and a bench chisel set in birdseye maple from Blue Spruce were my engagement 'gift'. As said above, I realise they havent made the maker yet, but they certainly encourage him to try. And it always feels better drinking fine wine from crystal glass than a plastic beaker, even if that beaker holds the wine just as well.

As far as the DT's go - I think about 3/5 saw kerfs were about paralell, and apart from the missing pin, pretty much all were on the waste side. I made doubly sure about that, scribbling over the waste bit etc. There are, undoubtedly, cuts on the wrong side, but I think what you might be seeing is mainly trimmed-too-much sides.

Thanks for the comments - and as for the bravery thing, well for a long time I have said that the line between bravery and stupidity is a fine one indeed

Adam

 

[wizer]

Don't worry about tool porn Adam. I have a workshop full of it and produce very little of any quality The thing is, I really do believe that the snazzy kit will make me a maker :roll: :lol:

 

[special bone]

Blinding effort for a first attempt.

Keep practicing on hardwoods, softwoods are cheap but terrible for dovetail practice.

Start with 2 long boards and keep cutting the dovetails off. The more you practice, the easier it gets. It's like riding a bike, you never forget how to do it but it's hard when you haven't done it for a while :lol: .

Get yourself a good dark pencil and mark out the waste like your teacher always said. Cutting a pin off in practice is annoying but cutting one off halfway through a project is embarrassing .

 

[mtt.tr]

My best bit of advice is look and a double look at your markings slightest mistake is rather annoying when you follow it i know ahh damn :x

 

[Harbo]

Nice kit!!

More care marking out and cutting, both with saw and chisel.
Have you had a look at any of the DVD's produced by the experts - worth a look at to get some idea of their techniques?
But practice makes perfect

Rod

 

[woodbloke]

Agree about practice...the more you do, the better it gets. Good first attempt though, keep at it :wink: - Rob

 

[Benchwayze]

Adam,

Full marks for showing us a brave attempt. You have some nice tools there and all you need now is practice I'd say.

My advice is, most workers cut tails first, but when cutting a 'secret-mitred' dovetail, it's impossible to mark out the pins from the tails. So you go pins first.

What I am trying to say is it's easier for me to cut the sockets first, and then shape the tails to fit. Just like I cut a mortice, before the tenon.

So, I decided to try the 'pins first' method (as per Frank Klausz) for all dovetails. Once I got that into my skull, things did become easier.

So Adam, try cutting pins first. You might find it more natural. And always mark the waste with an 'X' so you don't 'amputate' the wrong bit!

Now if advising you, doesn't give me some incentive to square up the disgusting mess in my shop, and get in there to make something, I don't know what will.

Regards
John

 

[bugbear]

In the early stages of learning, Kirby's book makes an obvious suggestion.

Since the main problem is sawing to the line, simply get a piece of wood, mark lots of lines, and practise sawing to them.

BugBear

 

[Benchwayze]

Agreed... Never read Kirby, but I suppose I should. Trouble is, I have so many books!

Cheers BB

John

 

[pedder]

Hi Adam,

these are some beautiful tools and I don't have a doubt that your dovetails will be as nice soon.

Did you stamp your initials in the spine? Didn't that bow the spline? :-k

Cheers Pedder

 

[frugal]

As so many others have said. Keep practicing it will get easier. My first dovetails took 3 hours and were appaling. Now I can get it down to about 30 minutes and moderately good.

One piece of advice I have found to really help is to position a mirror behind the work when you are sawing so that you can see the saw lines on both sides of the wood at the same time.

 

[matthewwh]

I've seen much worse on antique furniture, so for a first go they are very good indeed.

It's also nice to see someone investing in good tools at the outset, learning to use them well and adding to them as required. This approach has been recommended for generations in all cultures.

When we are talking about things that will last a lifetime 'my skills don't justify a decent one' always seems a prematurely defeatist attitude.

 

[lurker]

[]

Hi Adam,

these are some beautiful tools and I don't have a doubt that your dovetails will be as nice soon.

Did you stamp your initials in the spine? Didn't that bow the spline? :-k

Cheers Pedder

Those stamp marks made me shudder

 

[Kalimna]

Greetings again folks.
Once more, thanks for the words of encouragement. It's always nice to know that you are heading down the right track!
The suggestion of making multiple lines in a plank, and repeatedly sawing to them makes a lot of sense, as does taking a couple of planks, making a set of dovetails then sawing off that attempt and repeating etc. I shall do that the next time I am in my garage/workshop/retreat.
The tool thing is an interesting one, as some folk (no one in particular, and this applies to other interests of mine, namely photography and guitars) seem to think that only the most expereinced/skilled should have the best tools for the job, and if you come up as a beginner with a shiny (expensive) piece of equipment and don't know what you are doing, then it's a bit of a waste/show-off. Im glad that opinion doesnt appear to be prevalent here, however. Phew!

Pedder/Lurker - thanks for your concern, and it is indeed one that I shared, therefore I emailed Mr Wenzloff about this, and here is his response :

'The brass back is milled from solid bar. You should be able to lightly stamp it without incident. I would just make sure it is held solidly to something dense. In the off chance a slight bow is introduced, you should be able to carefully bow it back,'

I took his advice, being the maker of the saw, and there would appear to be not the slightest hint of a bow, and no need to 'carefully bow it back'.

So no need to shudder

Cheers,
Adam