New Veritas Combination Plane

[Andy Kev.]

I can imagine this finding its way onto a few Christmas present lists:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyTH78e7ZXA

It'll be interesting to read the first reviews when they appear.

 

[knockknock]

Some reading, the Veritas combination plane guide:

http://www.leevalley.com/us/html/Combin ... 7USpdf.pdf

 

[AndyT]

17 brass knobs!

 

[G S Haydon]

Are you describing the target market, Andy? :lol:

 

[Glynne]

Not sure I like to be called "brassy" Graham

 

[AndyT]

Are you describing the target market, Andy? :lol:

I was just getting in early before Jacob!

Seriously though, it's interesting that they see a demand for such a tool again. The surge in hand tool woodworking/ tool appreciation must be quite commercially visible in the US.

I guess it will have a hard time selling over here at that price, once it's converted into pounds, especially when the supply of good old combination planes seems so healthy.

I'm sure it will be a very well made tool and the people who buy it will be pleased with it.

 

[cowfoot]

Wonder if the blades fit the small plough?

 

[custard]

Credit to Veritas for offering metric options.

The way I make my drawers a precisely sized 4mm grooving cutter is often a lot faster than setting up the router table, making a test cut, adjusting the fence, making another test cut, etc, etc.

 

[Andy Kev.]

Are you describing the target market, Andy? :lol:

I was just getting in early before Jacob!

Seriously though, it's interesting that they see a demand for such a tool again. The surge in hand tool woodworking/ tool appreciation must be quite commercially visible in the US.

I guess it will have a hard time selling over here at that price, once it's converted into pounds, especially when the supply of good old combination planes seems so healthy.

I'm sure it will be a very well made tool and the people who buy it will be pleased with it.

I've just read that Classic Hand Tools is listing it at 4p shy of 370 quid. I suppose the key question is that if Veritas has indeed ironed out the minor faults or niggles which are sometimes attributed to the Stanleys and Records, will people feel that the resultant reliability and accuracy are worth the price? I have to admit that I can feel my Christmas bonus wobbling a bit. I don't think I could justify it at all out of normal funds.

 

[Jacob]

.....the key question is that if Veritas has indeed ironed out the minor faults or niggles which are sometimes attributed to the Stanleys and Records, ....

I wouldn't count on it. They are quite likely to have built in some new minor faults and niggles of their own. Stanley and Record had massive production runs and tried many variations on themes to optimise quality.

 

[custard]

I suppose the key question is that if Veritas has indeed ironed out the minor faults or niggles which are sometimes attributed to the Stanleys and Records, will people feel that the resultant reliability and accuracy are worth the price?

Think of it in the wider context of someone's total tool budget. I suggested recently that a realistic budget for a furniture making hand tool kit might be around £2,000. Start including stuff like this and that total budget (for hand tools only) could easily rise to well over £5,000.

I'm not saying that's right or wrong, people are entitled to spend their money any way they choose, but I'm pointing out that woodworking isn't a particularly cheap hobby. But if you aspire to these type of premium tools then there's no dodging the fact that it's a pretty pricey hobby!

On a similar theme I heard last week that, based on their latest buying prices with a falling pound, a timber yard that I use regularly will be increasing the ex vat price of American Black Walnut to £110 a cubic foot, that's a 30% increase over the past year.

:shock:

 

[bugbear]

I guess it will have a hard time selling over here at that price, once it's converted into pounds, especially when the supply of good old combination planes seems so healthy.

Yes - a #405, in box, is rather reasonably priced, even in very good nick.

BugBear

 

[deema]

The best news is that the cutters are compatible with both the 45 and 55 planes.

 

[Vann]

...Seriously though, it's interesting that they see a demand for such a tool again. The surge in hand tool woodworking/ tool appreciation must be quite commercially visible in the US...

Interesting too that it's come out about a year after the Clifton multi-plane (a 45/405 clone) went out of stock.

Cheers, Vann.

 

[Eric The Viking]

The worst news is that you'll be paying well north of $700 to own the complete kit.

I thought, "That's nice. At last a combination plane for us lefties!"

And there's no doubt of the Veritas commitment to quality - it will be a lovely thing to use, I expect. And what a pleasant alternative to using a powered router!

But I can't imagine any circumstances in which I could afford even the simplest version of it. I'm sure Lee Valley know their market, and I'm sure they'll sell truckloads in North America. But not to me, over here.

I might, however buy one of the reeding cutters, on its own, as it would solve a rather annoying problem, when used in a simple wooden body.

Daft world, innit?

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Clifton ceased production of their multi-plane, presumably because of low sales volume. The price, once you add up the Veritas bits to make the standard kit Clifton supplied, was not far off comparable.

My bet is that most combination planes, new or vintage, will spend 95% of their time in use ploughing grooves. How many fluting or reeding cutters actually get used I have no idea, but I'll bet it's not many!

No doubt the fan boys will make it worth Lee Valley's while to make the thing, but I can't help feeling that buying a decent plough plane will be all most people actually need, perhaps supplemented at some point by a beading plane or two.

I suppose it's nice that it's available, but it's a complicated and expensive way of doing things that simpler, cheaper tools can do better, for me.

(Edit - Ha! I see Vann and Eric beat me to it!)

 

[Cheshirechappie]

I might, however buy one of the reeding cutters, on its own, as it would solve a rather annoying problem, when used in a simple wooden body.

Thomas Flinn are selling off surplus Clifton multi-plane cutters, so you may find what you need there;

http://www.flinn-garlick-saws.co.uk/aca ... ml#SID=454

 

[custard]

I can't help feeling that buying a decent plough plane will be all most people actually need

If you stand back and look at real life furniture making you'll see the task you'll be doing most is cutting rebates. Across a range of typical projects that might account for more than half of actual use for this tool.

But here's the catch. A fair percentage of those rebates will be stopped rather than through rebates. And planes of any description just aren't that great for stopped work. I'm not saying they can't be cut with a plane, but I am saying they're a right old faff. That's why old school makers would go to extraordinary lengths to try and minimise the incidence of stopped rebates (and stopped housing) at the design stage, because they recognised stopped anything slows you down to a crawl.

Enter the powered plunge router. The plunge router is excellent at stopped work. Yes, I know they're noisy and spew dust around, but once you've cut a few stopped rebates and housings by hand you'll quickly get bored of the bucolic fantasy, eespecially after you mess up and your stopped rebate bursts out to inadvertently become a through rebate!

The next category of cutter that you may well use most often is a bead. If you're a joiner you need some big ones, and if you're a furniture maker you need some small ones, just one or two in either case is all you'll ever use. And when it comes to beads there's an awfully good argument to be made for a scratch stock.

Just sayin'

 

[Jacob]

...
But here's the catch. A fair percentage of those rebates will be stopped rather than through rebates. ...

Really? Where, why?
In the normal way of things a stopped rebate is a design mistake requiring an afterthought, or, rarely, an alteration to something existing.
I'd say old school makers (and new ones) would/should go to sensible lengths to optimise their efforts.
Cutting rebates by hand is best done with the woody skew rebate plane - which are still available in vast numbers very cheap.
Or an old Stanley 78 - a very effective, cheap and under-rated tool. The secret is to use the fence and the scribe just to start a cut, and take them off once it's going.

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

I have been using the new Combo for nearly a year now. As many here are aware, I have test driven a number of Lee Valley/Veritas tools pre-production for over a decade.

My personal philosophy in regard to planes is that I prefer planes dedicated to a specific task, however there is much to be said for a plough that can do grooves for drawers, cross grain housings (dados), and also beads. These are simple cuts, however they demand specific and different requirements.

The groove is the simplest to make. Grab a Record #044, Record/Rapier #043, Stanley #50, or Veritas Small Plow. All but the last one are available on the second hand market, and all will do the job. The Small Plow is the nicest to use in my opinion (I have owned all those mentioned), but new planes seem to be more expensive in the UK than even Australia, and so it is likely to be a luxury item for many.

None of these planes are suited to plane cross grain as they do not have a nicker to prevent spelching. So enter combo planes such as the Stanley #45, and now the Veritas Combo (when it was first on the drawing board, three years ago, it was going to be called the Large Plow).

Ignoring all the combination stuff on the Combo plane, it has the ability to plane with- and across the grain. It has nickers on the twin skates (as per the #45), and it has wonderful depth stops with fine adjusters on each as well. I like its ergonomics - the handle is a good size and the whole plane is well balanced.

The #45 and the Combo both do beads. Now I am fan of scratch stocks - beading planes tend to tear out horribly in the West Australian interlocked timbers. I posted a while back my experience in using back bevels on the beading cutters (when these blades were introduced for the Small Plow), and this method does make these planes viable users. Still, a simple scratch stock is hard to beat in terms of cost and ease of use.

The argument is that a #45 can do everything that the Combo can do, and there are many available far more cheaply than a new Combo. Absolutely true. Still there is a market for both - some will prefer the lower cost or the vintage aura of the #45, while some want new and ready-to-use, and are willing to pay for this.

Bottom line: the Veritas Combo is a very nice plane - taut and balanced in the hand, and everything works just as one would expect for the price of admission.

Some pics:

Combo vs Small Plow ...

Ploughing flutes into the grain ...

Grooving ...

Cross grain ...

Regards from Perth

Derek