New chisels - honing by hand or jig?

[pidgeonpost]

I've just bought some Ashley Iles bevel-edged butt chisels. Not used them yet, only flatted the backs ready for honing, but first impressions are good. Got a couple of questions though....

1. Jig or freehand honing? I've always bunged my chisels into an old Eclipse jig, as this gave reliable results with minimal effort. However, when I tried the AI chisels in this jig, the tape on the shorter blades makes them too thick at the edges to be gripped by the jig. Is it worth lashing out on (say) the Veritas MKIII at around £30, or should I tell myself I'm a big boy now and simply learn to get better freehand?

2. I've always used 25 and 30 degree angles on my trusty Marples jobbies (over 30 years old and still doing well despite abuse). The AI ones are currently single-bevel (no idea of the angle). Opinion seems divided on single or double bevel, but single-bevel strikes me as easier to maintain freehand than double bevel.

Any thoughts please folks?

 

[MikeW]

The LV MK.II honing jig does work very well.

But...as you will not ruin them by trying your hand [sorry for the pun] at hand honing, why not give it a go?

While I do use a jig from time to time, my daily honing is done by hand as it is simply quicker. I hone between tasks while working, just a couple quick swipes. This keeps the edge fresh and sharp.

Mostly I use a jig when I want to change an angle and don't want to use my belt sander for whatever reason. But when I do, the MK.II is most often the one I use.

Take care, Mike

 

[Joel Moskowitz]

THe secret to consistent hand sharpening is good technique. free hand sharpening will allow you to trivally maintain the original factory angles without ever grinding. (althought I like hoolow grinding).

For step by step instructions see here:

http://www.antiquetools.com/sharp

if you use don't use oilstones just map the oilstone grits to the stones you have. It's the technique that's important and with a tiny bit of practice it becomes second nature and jigs become cumbersome in the hand

 

[MikeW]

...if you use don't use oilstones just map the oilstone grits to the stones you have. It's the technique that's important and with a tiny bit of practice it becomes second nature and jigs become cumbersome in the hand

Joel has about one of the best places for learning to hone by hand.

Here's a reference chart to comparitive abrasive grits.
http://users.ameritech.net/knives/grits.htm

Take care, Mike

 

[Paul Chapman]

I've always bunged my chisels into an old Eclipse jig, as this gave reliable results with minimal effort. However, when I tried the AI chisels in this jig, the tape on the shorter blades makes them too thick at the edges to be gripped by the jig. Is it worth lashing out on (say) the Veritas MKIII at around £30

Hi pidgeonpost,

I saw a modification to the Eclipse jig the other day which overcomes the problem of clamping bevel edge chisels. It's so good that I'm going to modify mine. I'll try to explain it.

It involves drilling and tapping two holes in each side of the bed where you normally rest your plane irons. You then drill and screw on two pieces of thin-ish metal slightly wider than the existing bed. This will enable you to clamp the chisels with the flat side of the chisel blade against the under-side of the two pieces of metal you have fitted. You can also file away the two existing grooves where you would normally clamp bevel edge chisels as this will enable you to clamp wider chisels.

Hope this is clear :? I believe others have made this modification - maybe someone who has will post a picture :wink:

Cheers

Paul

 

[David C]

Paul,

This modification is in my Third book, which has finally arrived, despite not being visible on my website shop yet.

We hope to have a new website design up and running this week.

It may not solve the very short butt chisel problem, but it does allow temple carpenters chisels, firmer chisels and mortice chisels to fit nicely.

Glad you liked it,

David Charlesworth www.davidcharlesworth.co.uk

 

[David C]

For short butt chisels the Stanley guide and the Richard Kell guide will both work.

Having no butt chisels cannot check the Veritas mark 2.

David C

 

[pidgeonpost]

Folks - thanks for the tips so far. I must admit that my use of the jig began when I first started woodworking and ran into the usual problems that beginners have - inconsistent angles, multiple facets, out-of-square blades etc. The jig solved all of those problems, but I've always envied those 'pros' who get a really good edge freehand. The old chap who lives next door to me (well into his 70's now) did a 7-year apprenticeship as a joiner, and he never worried about angles, jigs, or even whether the cutting edge was dead square to the blade. His tools were always very sharp, and cut very crisply.
I guess it's possible to get hung up on obtaining that perfect edge, and I suspect that if/when I achieve it I'll be let down by my inadequacy in using it!
I think I'll try getting improving the freehand technique and see how it goes before buying another jig. The Richard Kell ones look good, but (Paul) I'd be interested in trying the mod to the Eclipse jig. Maybe someone has a photo please?

Thanks again....PP

 

[woodbloke]

Pidgeonpost - here's the actual one that Paul saw the other day, modified to a DC recipe first appearing in an early edition of F&C- works very well too - Rob

 

[pidgeonpost]

Rob - very many thanks for the photos - I'll definitely have a go at this mod as it seems worthwhile even if I do get better at hand sharpening.

Cheers,

Tim

 

[MikeW]

For short butt chisels the Stanley guide and the Richard Kell guide will both work.

Having no butt chisels cannot check the Veritas mark 2.

David C

Crown butt chisels...about as short as they come.

Take care, Mike

 

[Paul Chapman]

Thanks for posting the picture Rob - wasn't sure if your camera was still playing up. The other good thing about this modification is that you can still use your plane blades on it :wink:

Cheers

Paul

 

[Paul Chapman]

Glad you liked it

Hi David,

Yes I really did. Like all good ideas it's so simple and so obvious once you've seen it :wink:

Paul

 

[woodbloke]

Paul - I couldn't get the old Fuji to work any more, I had to get a new one, so posting pics on the forum won't be a problem any more - Rob

 

[bugbear]

or should I tell myself I'm a big boy now and simply learn to get better freehand?

Feh. Macho nonsense. If jigs were good enough for (the highly skilled) Jim Kingshott (and our own DC, come to that), I for one do not feel in any way embarassed about following suit.

What next? Fenceless ploughs?

BugBear

 

[garywayne]

I prefer to use jigs just to keep everything to a constant.

woodbloke. I am unable to see your pics. All I see are two small boxes with a red cross in each.

 

[Alf]

What next? Fenceless ploughs?

You don't mean you're still using the fence...? :shock: Tsk, still got the stabilizers on your Claud Butler too, eh? :wink: :lol:

Cheers, Alf

Cheek, tongue, etc.

 

[Anonymous]

Or why not eye ball plumb and level or mark out joints with charcoal sticks :lol: :lol: :lol:

Seriously though isnt it a problem that the wheel on the jig ruins the surface of the stone (waterstone) they arent hard, cost enough and wear quicker at the best of times without extra w&t?? I used a eclipse honing jig but found it more hindrance than hepl too much messing about trying to get the blade the right distance into the clamp to get the exact same setting. :wink: Yes I've seen "jigs" that look like jcb's with side rollers etc but I cant see the point

 

[bugbear]

Seriously though isn't it a problem that the wheel on the jig ruins the surface of the stone

Only if you're pressing WAY too hard on the jig. It's only meant to be (helping you to) maintain a consistent bevel.

Bottom line: you still need (some) hand skills, even with a jig.

I used a eclipse honing jig but found it more hindrance than hepl too much messing about trying to get the blade the right distance into the clamp to get the exact same setting

Ah. You were missing a vital (but cheap component.

http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images ... ge_id=3508

This make projection setting both VERY quick, and VERY accurate.

Without it (or something like it) the Eclipse is indeed fiddly. The Veritas mk II has something analogous as an explicit component. The Veritas is also variable height (as well as projection) which AFAIK is a first.

(Well, the Millers Falls #240 came close)

BugBear

 

[bugbear]

However, when I tried the AI chisels in this jig, the taper on the shorter blades makes them too thick at the edges to be gripped by the jig.

Derek Cohen to the rescue, but not in the way you expect!

http://www.woodcentral.com/cgi-bin/hand ... ead=100260

(section 2, Building a dovetail chisel)

BugBear