motor advice

[wallace]

Hi all, I have just aquired a multico surface planer and it came with dual voltage motor. It has the original wiring schematic but i dont get it. The bit I dont get is, it says after linking v2 to u1 etc. that I should run the supply to u1 v1 and w1, how do I do this with only two wires , brown and blue. There is only 4 terminals not like the six I have seen in other motors.
Heres a pic, any help would be great.

 

[flh801978]

The black wires that disapear into the motor are those marked? U,V,W?

you have 3 wires suppling the motor.... dont you? ( plus an earth)

so you remove the black wires that are marked ( 6 in all) connect them as your schematic and reconect your supply wires (blue,brown and black)

You do know that a dual voltage motor still needs 3 phase? but at 240 v between phases rather than 415V....

Ian

 

[doorframe]

Hi. If I understand correctly, you are using a single phase supply. The dual voltage relates to 3 phase 440/220V star/delta configurations. You cannot run it on single phase. Dont try or you may damage the motor.

Choices are to replace the motor with a single phase motor or get an inverter.

There is a member on here who's an expert with all things 'motors'. I think it's 'Bob 9-fingers' but I could be wrong. I'm sure he'll give you more detailed advise.

HTH.

Roy

 

[9fingers]

Wallace,

You cannot do what you are attempting. Read my paper on induction motors below and this will give you the options.


Bob

 

[wallace]

Thanks Ian, Rob and Bob I was under the impression that a dual voltage motor could be used on either a 'industrial' or 'domestic' supply (homer) .
I think it might be easier if I just replace the motor with a single phase jobby, still I only payed £32 for the 9" planer so still worth it.

 

[9fingers]

Make sure that you get the right sort of single phase motor. Planers especially, need very high starting torque and when fitted with single phase motors often have capacitor start and run motors. These motors have two capacitors (lumps hanging off the side for the uninitiated)
Unfortunately, I don't have a picture of one in my paper. (something else to put in the next revision).

like this http://www.chudov.com/projects/Champion ... ematic.jpg

Bob

 

[wallace]

Thanks for the advice Mr 9fingers. I have also aquired a little Wadkin 6" planer that needs restoring, what size motor would you reccomend.

 

[Digit]

As Bob says, or as I did, a bloody great big motor! What HP on the Wadkin?

Roy.

 

[9fingers]

Hi Wallace,

The simple honest unhelpful answer is I don't know what motor this machine originally had and looking online I have not come up with a manual for that machine.
but.....
Typically modern 6" planers use 1.5 to 2 hp motors. Yours looks like it has a pretty hefty cutter block so I would say higher rather than lower say 2hp. Typically older machines run the cutter block at a lower speed than the modern machines in the absence of any further definitive information I'd suggest about 4500 rpm. You will need a two pole motor as the speed ratio on the belt drive could well be too great on a four pole motor. As earlier I would try and find a capacitor start and run type.

The other big consideration is will it fit? many early machines just bolted a motor on the outside of the frame so this might be less of an issue on your planer. Some cheaper motors are not readily reversible so make sure you know which direction of rotation that you need if you are going for this type of motor. In order to protect the motor, use a DOL starter with thermal overload protection and at these powers, you will possibly not be able to run from a 13amp plug. A separately fused 16amp with a type C breaker will almost certainly be needed.
Secondhand motors will be cheaper and even if they have failed start capacitors, these are cheap to replace £10-£20.

hope these ramblings help - reading my motor paper will almost certainly be helpful but leave out the three phase stuff other than reading enough to avoid your initial erroneous presumption.

hth

Bob

 

[Digit]

Mine was 3 phase Bob and came with a 3/4 horse motor. As the cutter block is no lightweight I fitted a 2 HP replacement.
There's no substitute for power Wallace.

Roy.

 

[kirkpoore1]

Typically modern 6" planers use 1.5 to 2 hp motors. Yours looks like it has a pretty hefty cutter block so I would say higher rather than lower say 2hp. ...

hth

Bob

Bob, are you sure you're not thinking of 8" machines? I looked at a few 6" planers (jointers) and they all seem to be in the 3/4 or 1 hp range, even with helical heads. And from what I've seen older machines typically had less power than current ones. My 4" jointer does great with a 1/2 hp motor.

Kirk

 

[9fingers]

Hi Kirk,
I was using 'reasoned guesswork' !!

My numbers were based on looking through a couple of catalogues - not an exhaustive search. I don't know the machine in question but it looks like it has on hell of a cutter block on it and that will take some acceleration to get that up to speed quickly before the cut out goes.

Some electronic starters are now only allowing two seconds before disconnecting the starter which then leads to the motor never reaching synchronous speed and the thermal trip blowing.

I'm with Roy on this one - More POWER Igor!! :lol:

Cheers

Bob

 

[Digit]

They are a pretty hefty block Bob and mine was geared for 1440rpm motor speed, resulting in a block rpm of about 1000rpm. I regeared for a higher block speed. Also I use mainly hardwood and with long lengths the motor maintains its speed.

Roy.

 

[NetBlindPaul]

Remember you may need to change the motor starter to as this could be fitted with 400V coils!

 

[kirkpoore1]

Bob:

Sure, it won't hurt while running. But it will certainly cost more for the bigger motor, and the electrical issue will be a hassle too, as Paul indicates. Best bet is to look for a used motor to keep the cost down.

I concur that 4500 rpm is a good speed. Wallace, if you need a new motor pulley, just realize that the speed doesn't have to be too exact. A hundred rpm one way or the other won't matter. But if you have a choice between 4000 and 5000 rpm, go with the faster speed.

Kirk

 

[wallace]

When talking about speed. Which is better a motor that goes faster or a motor that is slower but uses pulley ratio to increase speed.

 

[9fingers]

Define 'better' please

 

[NetBlindPaul]

A motor that goes faster.
Speed and torque (power) are interlinked.
Increasing the speed by "gearing" reduces the torque available at the cutter.

 

[GraemeD]

I reckon your Wadkin planer is the same model as the one I restored last year. I used a 1HP 2 pole motor with separate start and run caps, and it wasn't man enough to get the cutter block spinning before the start cap timed out. Bob (9fingers) kindly helped me diagnose this problem. I now have a system that keeps the start cap in circuit for a bit longer, and it works a treat. The planer is certainly not underpowered in use....it's literally that startup phase where you need just a bit more power. I'd therefore go for a 1.5HP 2 pole motor if I were looking again. I know the modern planers use less power....I did the survey too.....but this has a very heavy cutter block, which takes a bit of torque to get started.

Cracking machine though.....definitely worth the time and effort to restore!

Hope that helps!

Cheers
Graeme

 

[NetBlindPaul]

The old ones are the best!