Mortgage rates / interest etc
- Thread starter baldkev
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P S it was nt my post it was Terrys
Your half right. A migrant is someone that goes elsewhere to find work but not stay permanently. Can be within own country or too another country. An immigrant is a person that goes to another country to stay permanently.
John Brown
Freeloading Social media influenza
An emigrant is someone who goes to another country. An immigrant is someone who comes to your country. They're both types of migrant. The clue is in how the words are constructed.
sploo
Somewhat extinguished member
Unless you're British; then you emigrate to another country (thus becoming an immigrant), but call yourself an expat; whilst then voting for Brexit because you don't like immigrants
We don't usually use the term emigrant and immigrant interchangeably with migrant.
The former imply a permanent or long term stay, and the latter imply transience or potential transience.
Out of curiosity, I looked up an explanation of the various common uses of "migrant" and National Geographic has a piece defining the bits for the uninitiated.
https://www.nationalgeographic.org/...on: moving within a,moving into a new country
Interestingly, intracountry migrants are also defined here, despite the hand wringing about that not being correct.
John Brown
Freeloading Social media influenza
I never said it wasn't correct. All I said was that "migrant" wasn't restricted to intra country.
The US is much bigger than little ole British land, and I know you have a history of migrant workers, at lot of whom will not have come from another country. The dust bowl victims of Steinbeck and Woody Guthrie, or the apple pickers of John Irving. We used to have more of these too, hop pickers decamping to Kent for the harvest, girls following fish down the coastline etc., but I suppose in recent times these jobs have been performed by foreign workers. They're still migrants, according to most definitions. They migrate, just like arctic terns or swallows, and I believe that's what makes them migrants. Once again, the clue is in the make up of the word.
John Brown
Freeloading Social media influenza
I do concede, however, that in popular usage, the term "migrant" can imply movement of a more temporary nature.
Such as those arriving in the UK in inflatable boats, who will only stay for a while before being shipped out to Rwanda.
Such as those arriving in the UK in inflatable boats, who will only stay for a while before being shipped out to Rwanda.
John Brown
Freeloading Social media influenza
"We don't usually use the term emigrant and immigrant interchangeably with migrant."
Once again, I never suggested that they were interchangeable. I said that emigrants and immigrants were subsets of migrants.
It's rather tiresome having to defend myself against things I haven't said. You still haven't shown me where I said anything about "quartiles". It seems unlikely, as I have never used the word before. Whether I missed that lesson at school 60 odd years ago, or whether it's a term more frequently used in the US, I can't say. I do know that I first heard it from an American, and had to look it up.
Once again, I never suggested that they were interchangeable. I said that emigrants and immigrants were subsets of migrants.
It's rather tiresome having to defend myself against things I haven't said. You still haven't shown me where I said anything about "quartiles". It seems unlikely, as I have never used the word before. Whether I missed that lesson at school 60 odd years ago, or whether it's a term more frequently used in the US, I can't say. I do know that I first heard it from an American, and had to look it up.
John Brown
Freeloading Social media influenza
Does it mater what you call them, at the end of the day they are entering the UK illegally and are potentially a threat to national security. They are not families fleeing a war zone but mostly young male Albanians either being sent here to work for the gangs or seeking economic benefits so they must be rounded up and returned directly to Albania. The attitude towards them would change drastically if the chancellor raised income tax from 20 to 24 percent to fund this crisis, at that point we would see migration centres burning.
You weren't the intended recipient of the quartile comment. Actually, I haven't seen you try to imply anything like we see others on here do, referring to someone who can't pay bills as "the average person".
I probably didn't delineate clearly enough, but some folks who do things like that tend to complain loudly if you name them.
You're right about the migrant history in the US - but the US is so regional (and I guess the united kingdom is, too) that migrants in my part of the country tend or tended to have been from mexico and not the old popular stories of folks who left the dust bowl and went to California. I'd forgotten about those folks. Most of them went west or went south or north and stuck where they landed. The migrants where I grew up had an annual cycle. The orchards have not declined in size, and they still do use some migrant labor (the pros who do that work are cut from a different cloth than the average person - they are the best of the best and can do ungodly work volume, which is piece rate where I grew up, or per bushel, whatever the measure).
There are some migrant concrete workers and other seasonal jobs - I have a fairly dim view of their employers, who are local business owners who use them just as a way to get bids and not have any employee rights. Two poured the foundation for my dad's garage - 40 hours. Not 40 hours of work over some number of days, 40 hours in a row start to finish. One was transient, no drivers license, no english. The other local and a more permanent undocumented employee of the small concrete contractor, according to him.
Typical hourly wage in mexico is something like $4 an hour. Transient work like that is probably worth $25 an hour for a skilled crew member, but the work is ungodly.
I don't have a well formed thought on it - the transient of the crew is working as much as he can for a very specific reason - to send money back and then eventually go back periodically and then re-do. The same is true for the fruit pickers - they can work 15 hours a day and make many multiples of what they could where they come from, lay low and send most of it back. I think they are sacrificing themselves, but I'm not in their shoes - it's probably life changing money. If the government got involved, they'd just screw it up and make it worse for everyone, so nobody local really objects to it.
My lens is very different than people near borders - I hadn't considered that some of the folks are in country for less than savory purposes, but the eastern european mob dominance in the southeast is a sign of that, I guess.
John Brown
Freeloading Social media influenza
"You weren't the intended recipient of the quartile comment. Actually, I haven't seen you try to imply anything like we see others on here do, referring to someone who can't pay bills as "the average person".
I probably didn't delineate clearly enough, but some folks who do things like that tend to complain loudly if you name them."
Ok. Fair enough. It looked like I was the target of that accusation, but I'm glad to hear otherwise.
I probably didn't delineate clearly enough, but some folks who do things like that tend to complain loudly if you name them."
Ok. Fair enough. It looked like I was the target of that accusation, but I'm glad to hear otherwise.
Jacob
New Luddism. Awake and resist!
not if they present themselves to the authorities in the proper fashion as they nearly all do. Difficult not to if you arrive in full view in a small boat
Of course they are not!
Many are, but the boundaries between war, political breakdown, economic stress, climate change, are never clear.
a small percentage Evidence for claim that 60% of small boat arrivals are Albanian not yet published - Full Fact
Oh, so you are in favour of fire bombs?
Why are you so anxious to denigrate and fear these poor sods? There are many much bigger issues in front of us, mainly climate change of course.
Migration will be a big feature of climate change and we are only just seeing the beginning.
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johna.clements
Established Member
posted By UK government July 22
The make-up of people on small boats has been changing. From January 2018 to June 2022, Iranian (28%) and Iraqi (20%) nationals represented nearly half of all small boat arrivals. In the first six months of 2022, over half (51%) of small boat arrivals were from three nationalities – Albanian (18%), Afghan (18%) and Iranian (15%)
https://www.gov.uk/government/stati...actsheet-small-boat-crossings-since-july-2022
Do you realy think that Iraq and Afghanistan are peaceful places.
Do you think that 18% is most.
There was a terrorist attack in Dover last week.
Jacob
New Luddism. Awake and resist!
Both been bombed to bits by, er, the UK amongst others.
At a cost to us of £34.7bn. !!!!
Possibly large numbers would not now be refugees if Britain had not spent £34,700,000,000 in pointlessly wrecking their countries
Jameshow
Established Member
Or like the Scottish who want to Brexit from us and then rejoin the EU!!!Unless you're British; then you emigrate to another country (thus becoming an immigrant), but call yourself an expat; whilst then voting for Brexit because you don't like immigrants
Jameshow
Established Member
My apologies - I didn't know that's what kept the tension going. I've not seen you pose a bunk argument - we don't have to agree on things, I appreciate anyone who posts legitimate opinions that aren't extrapolations or idealistic stretches and I've never noticed you to do any of that.
Jacob
New Luddism. Awake and resist!
Yep. Corbyn was against it.Nice labour leader Mr Blair!
