Mock ye not !!

[Cottonwood]

Incidentally, are you still making those old fashioned, inefficient wooden windows and stairs. I have heared there is PVC and aluminium extrusions these days? Or do you work in the media available to you too and even find advantages in that ancient stuff called wood, and perhaps enjoy making the things too.

Mike.

LOL I wasted about 5 years of my life paying the motrgage while working in a factory that produced UPVC windows and doors. If you think they are efficient, you are misinformed. The plastic used to make the frames is cheap and usually cut with wax, which means that after a few short years, the material strength is reduced as it goes brittle in the sun and rain, so that it then only tales a minor knock to break the plastic, which cannot be repaired. So what do you do? Phone everest and buy another frame of course, BOGOF.... Either that or wise up and get decent wood units. I have heard of window frames, made of pitch pine and regulalry maintained, lasting over 100 years or more. No upvc will last anything like that, 10 years if your lucky. Jacob will know better, perhaps wooden frames can last longer than 100 years? And unlike a crappy piece of german plastic, they can be repaired if they do get knocked and damaged. As a result of my time in the plastic factory, I refuse to have any house "that benefits from upvc double glazing" (according to the rubbish that the estate agents come out with). The sealed units themselves however are a good improvement on the past, they just need to sit in good quality wooden frames, which is what I have now. Its no hardship to do them on a 2 year rotation, half this year, the other half next year, and so forth, especially with nice paint and a purdy brush
cheers Jonathan

 

[mark w]

The UPVC windows in my house are 15 years old and show no sign of going brittle, the sealed units are good too, I guess I must be lucky.

 

[woodbrains]

Hello,

it was part of the program to make at least 2 Krenov planes, a smoother and a try. I had actually made one before I went, so was familliar with them and made 2 additional ones, a round and a rocker to suit the work I was doing. i did the lot in 2 days, and we worked 6 days a week, so not a lot in the overall scheme of things. I seemed to get the job of tuning up some of the other students planes, who were not quite as deft at doing them. I also made a shoulder plane for another student as a bit of an aside, when other things were at a standstill. There is a lot to learn about how a tool operated and how to get the best out of them, when you make your own, which was the reasoning behind having to do them. Also, many students did not have too many tools, so it was a good way of getting superb performing planes at a bargain price. Ron Hock lives just down the road, so the irons were readily available. That said, there were lots of other tools to try out, some LN LV , vintage Stanleys of USA origins some Steve Knight exotic things, there was lots of experimentation. There was on guy who lived in a place called Albion, who had the biggest plane collection I have ever seen. 3 Barn sized buildings filled to the rafters. There must have been 10 000.

That book 'With Wakened Hands' I have with a dedication from Krenov in it. There is a fair bit of Krenovian stuff, but I suppose all the students went there because they liked Krenov; those who went to North Bennet Street would all do American Chippendale, it is just par for the course. However, all the students designed their own with no biassed input from the instructors. Obviously there was lots discussed about timber selection, proportion, function etc. and there were lessons on dovetailing, fitting drawers, mortice and tenons etc. but everyone designed what they liked. In fact, if you look at the book closely, there are many chairs, something Krenov did not do (note the Carl Malmsten copy, English Arts and Crafts done by a Swede and as fresh today as you like) musical instrumeents, marquetry.. look at 'Slacken Pair' two side tables that have nothing in common with JK, Dan Stalzer's ladderback chairs-American vernacular, (I rented that guys house) the prismatic parquetry cabinets, Look at the Vilkiman (sp?) stuff or Brian Newel, or Yeung Chans things (both the latter gave lectures there) I think you will find quite a diversity of stuff

 

[woodbrains]

Incidentally, are you still making those old fashioned, inefficient wooden windows and stairs. I have heared there is PVC and aluminium extrusions these days? Or do you work in the media available to you too and even find advantages in that ancient stuff called wood, and perhaps enjoy making the things too.

Mike.

LOL I wasted about 5 years of my life paying the motrgage while working in a factory that produced UPVC windows and doors. If you think they are efficient, you are misinformed. The plastic used to make the frames is cheap and usually cut with wax, which means that after a few short years, the material strength is reduced as it goes brittle in the sun and rain, so that it then only tales a minor knock to break the plastic, which cannot be repaired. So what do you do? Phone everest and buy another frame of course, BOGOF.... Either that or wise up and get decent wood units. I have heard of window frames, made of pitch pine and regulalry maintained, lasting over 100 years or more. No upvc will last anything like that, 10 years if your lucky. Jacob will know better, perhaps wooden frames can last longer than 100 years? And unlike a crappy piece of german plastic, they can be repaired if they do get knocked and damaged. As a result of my time in the plastic factory, I refuse to have any house "that benefits from upvc double glazing" (according to the rubbish that the estate agents come out with). The sealed units themselves however are a good improvement on the past, they just need to sit in good quality wooden frames, which is what I have now. Its no hardship to do them on a 2 year rotation, half this year, the other half next year, and so forth, especially with nice paint and a purdy brush
cheers Jonathan

Hello,

I was being sarcastic to prove a point, don't quite know how you missed that. I'm not having a go at Jacob for making wooden joinery, just drawing a parallel with the things I do, but get bated over.

Mike.

 

[Jacob]

"With Wakened Hands" - hideously pretentious title, which at the same time fails to impress - it brings to mind some sort of Steven King novel - "Return of the Zombie Paedophiles" or some such. The woodwork gives me the creeps too.

the things I do, but get bated over - well you do ask for it, endlessly moralising, tut-tutting about tools, "correcting" and disapproving! Keep me amused however. :lol:
It seems to be a feature of A&C, that assumption of some sort of moral superiority and general disapproval of everything else. Public school attitudes?

 

[woodbrains]

Hello,

DH Lawrence quotation;

'Things men have made with wakened hands, and put life into
Are awake through years with transferred touch and go on glowing
For long years
And for this reason, some old things are lovely
Warm still with the life of forgotten men who made them.'

Nuff said.

Mike

 

[Cottonwood]

Hello,

DH Lawrence quotation;

'Things men have made with wakened hands, and put life into
Are awake through years with transferred touch and go on glowing
For long years
And for this reason, some old things are lovely
Warm still with the life of forgotten men who made them.'

Nuff said.

Mike

Those who can, get on and do it. Those who cant, write endless platitudes and theory about it..something like that any way (homer)

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

I wonder if maybe/possibly/perhaps this thread has run out of energy??? (tip...please)

 

[mark w]

No its still going strong and is a bit better now that some of insults have lessened.
I still have a few Krenov questions for Mike.

 

[Racers]

My Dad has a second house/mobile home in Fort Brag, when I went over last (2007) I dragged everybody with me to meet Ron Hock but didn't want to bother them with seeing JK so I never got to meet him, something I regret.

Pete

 

[Jacob]

Hello,

DH Lawrence quotation;

'Things men have made with wakened hands, and put life into
Are awake through years with transferred touch and go on glowing
For long years
And for this reason, some old things are lovely
Warm still with the life of forgotten men who made them.'

Nuff said.

Mike

Lawrence had a thing for the working man and his traditions and you can be sure that the above refers to ordinary stuff made by "anon" strictly in the vernacular tradition.
I think he'd be a bit scathing about Arts n Crafts of his day - a slightly effete gentrified thing* such as Clifford Chatterley might get up to in his shed, whilst his Mrs was fiddling about in the undergrowth!
He was into Ruskin and Morris - but more the texts than the artifacts, I'd guess.
* then , as now.

 

[woodbrains]

My Dad has a second house/mobile home in Fort Brag, when I went over last (2007) I dragged everybody with me to meet Ron Hock but didn't want to bother them with seeing JK so I never got to meet him, something I regret.

Pete

Hello,

I don't think JK would have been up to visitors in 2007 anyway, sadly. He was ailing by then and couldn't see well if at all. His final piece of furniture was finished by someone else (David Finck) when his eyesight failed. I don't think you missed an opportunity. He passed in 2009.

Ron Hock is a nice bloke.

Hello,

DH Lawrence quotation;

'Things men have made with wakened hands, and put life into
Are awake through years with transferred touch and go on glowing
For long years
And for this reason, some old things are lovely
Warm still with the life of forgotten men who made them.'

Nuff said.

Mike

Lawrence had a thing for the working man and his traditions and you can be sure that the above refers to ordinary stuff made by "anon" strictly in the vernacular tradition.
I think he'd be a bit scathing about Arts n Crafts of his day - a slightly effete gentrified thing* such as Clifford Chatterley might get up to in his shed, whilst his Mrs was fiddling about in the undergrowth!
He was into Ruskin and Morris - but more the texts than the artifacts, I'd guess.
* then , as now.

Of all the baseless, wild assumptions, this, even for you is possibly the most unfounded tripe I have ever read.

I know you only do it for a wind up, but for pity's sake, try to get one arguable fact in amongst the fantasy.

Mike.

 

[mark w]

Bad luck Pete, I would be happy to see one of cabinets in the flesh, I would be interested to know what one of them would have sold for and what one is worth now after his death, I have never seen one come up for sale, any ideas anyone?
Mike, I have looked at your profile, there are no clues as to what you do now are you still a furniture maker? By the way that was quite some put down for Jacob.

 

[mark w]

Another thank you to David Charlesworth, through reading your books I discovered Krenov, seemingly a long time after everybody else going by the other posts.

 

[Racers]

Hi Mike

Ron is a good chap he said I should give JK a ring! I met Rons wife in her book shop and got talking to her until my stepped in and took me away!


We also went in to The Spunky Skunk toyshop http://www.flickr.com/photos/54144402@N03/8570118795/


Pete

 

[woodbrains]

Hello Pete,

Sorry you missed JK then, if he was still up to visitors at that point. He had a few pieces of his early furniture at his house and they looked amazing, the books don't do them enough justice. The 'bits of maple' wall cabinet, which was never one of my favourites from the books, was actually very nice indeed. He was getting less able during the latter years, and his work was not as fine as it once was, but heck did he still know how to use wood. He was 83 then and to all intents and purposes looked like Yoda. He had arms like an orang utan though, still amazingly strong. He had the habit of coaching himself as he worked. I'm not sure that he realised it, but if you were in the machine shop at the same time he was working you could quite plainly hear him chiding and coaxing himself. 'C,mon Krenov, you silly old fool' he would tell himself.

The Dean of the college asked him to leave after he offended a couple of students about the quality of their work. He didn't pull any punches, you just had to have a sense of humour about his comments. These students were a bit precious, obviously, and complained to the Dean, so he got the push.

This has gone so far off topic now, it doesn't matter I guess, but did you ever visit Mendocino? The gallery there showed the students work and the town was so quaint it is untrue. I vaguely remember the toy shop in Fort Bragg, we used to babysit one of the students little girl and obviously bought her something from there. This might seem an irrelevant bit of info, but the student, her dad, was a very good maker. You might want to do a google search on Kent Townsend. He has won awards for his Ruhlmann style furnitutreout in Collerado.

I will have to make a return visit to Fort Bragg soon, it was a great time.
Mike.

 

[Jacob]

... By the way that was quite some put down for Jacob.

Unscathed! You can't put people down by just huffing and puffing. :roll:
He doesn't know much about D H Lawrence, or the Bauhaus, or design in general. Keep trying to point the way out of the A&C hole but he obviously feels safe in there, worshipping at the shrine of St Jim :lol:
Though come to think old Jimbo wouldn't have been too hot on design history either. Blind leading the blind.

 

[woodbrains]

Hello,

Jacob,

In fact JK was extremely well read. Interested in Japanese, Chinese, European and American art and craft history and literature. he lived in many of these countries; born in Siberia, Russia, was well travelled due to his fathers work. i think lived in China at some point. But then you know nothing about a lot of the subjects you somehow feel qualified to lecture on. But perhaps another of D H Lawrence's fictitious characters will have something to tell you about what we all think.

Mike.

 

[Jacob]

Is it true he could he walk on water?

 

[Phil Pascoe]

You didn't meet him out there at any time?