Mobile Speed Cameras......Again

[MMUK]

"I know professional cyclists who agree with me."
Brilliant!
I can not compete with such watertight arguments as the Appeal to Higher Authority.

Sorry John but that's a pathetic grab at the straw that doesn't exist. :roll:

 

[KevM]

It's so hard to leave all these muddy little pigs alone.

Exactly.......So, we are all woodworkers here, many professionals and many more highly skilled amateurs. Many of us cook, or do other hobbies, like cycling, swimming etc.

Following the logic of the assertion that its impossible to tell if you are in fact a good or skilled or above average driver, are you seriously suggesting that we are all unable to judge the level of skill at which we carry on all these other hobbies or occupations?

You know if you are a good swimmer, a good cook or good at your job. Same as you know if you are bad at them.

Why it is then judged impossible to assess your ability as a driver? Would you say that 95% of everyone here rates themselves as being a top notch woodworker? No, of course not - Some would , others would not. But I could pretty much guarantee that most peoples assessment of their skill level was pretty accurate.

More poorly reasoned, irrelevant and misleading comparisons. Generally speaking, if other people's well being depends on your ability to conduct a safety critical activity to a certain standard you are required to be appropriately certified by an appropriate body and operate in accordance with that body's rules & regulations.
Good swimmer/bad swimmer - unless you're a professional lifeguard nobody cares
Good cook/bad cook - so long as you pass the minimum bar of food hygiene nobody cares

If you have raced cars, motorcycles etc on tracks, and can do these things and have never had any serious accidents, as well as being able to apply safe techniques on the road, then I would say you could pretty safely call yourself an above average driver

Actuarial tables don't care about your unsubstantiated claims, they provide a statistical approach that funnily enough makes racing drivers the most expensive occupation for private motor insurance.

Nonetheless, F1 drivers are clearly speed-freaks who live for the thrills they get behind the wheel of their racing machine. But problems can arise when they take their work home with them: there have been a number of incidents involving F1 drivers speeding, or driving dangerously on general roads and motorways, demonstrating that even the most skilled drivers can come a cropper and be fined or face a conviction.

F1 racing driver incidents

German Ralf Schumacher was charged with careless driving, speeding and causing injury following a motorway pile-up in Cologne. Brit poster boy Jenson Button was fined £500 for speeding on a French motorway after being pulled over by police for driving his BMW at 144 mph.

The list goes on. Former world champion Lewis Hamilton was pulled over in Melbourne, Australia, and had his Mercedes impounded after he admitted to driving in an ‘over-exuberant manner’, causing him to lose traction while performing street stunts.

David Coulthard faced a driving ban in India for speeding during a Formula One exhibition in Mumbai, clocking up 160mph, while Eddie Irvine was arrested for allegedly speeding on a scooter in London, without insurance.

The impact on car insurance

Thousands of British motorists are caught and fined for speeding or dangerous driving every week. The risk with any kind of reckless driving is, of course, that you could hurt others or yourself, or even cause death on the roads, as well as lose your licence.

Any conviction while driving can also have a big impact on your car insurance premiums, with policy providers considering you at greater risk of having an accident, and so charging you more for your cover.

However, the size of impact any type of driving conviction will have depends on various factors, such as your age, car, and the incident in question. For example, you’re going to pay much more for your cover if you’ve had a drink-driving conviction than if you get a single speeding fine. But whatever your conviction, you’ll have to confess when applying for a policy if it’s within the past five years, as insurers will ask the question.

Never be tempted not to disclose the information requested. Those who provide false or incomplete information when applying for motor insurance might find their policy is invalid if they come to make a claim.

The impact of your job on car insurance premiums

It’s not only driving convictions that can see your car insurance premium skyrocket. Other factors that impact the cost of your cover include your occupation.

For example, racing drivers are likely to pay top whack for their car insurance, as by their very nature they are more likely to feel the need for speed on the road, and as history has shown a fair number have faced fines and convictions.

So as our MoneySupermarket article explains here, the ‘safe’ professions, like nursing and teaching, will benefit from lowest average premiums, while racier occupations such as professional footballer, actor and journalist will take a bigger hit when it comes to premium costs.

http://www.moneysupermarket.com/car-ins ... ng-errors/

You may not believe in statistics, but they believe in you.

 

[Jacob]

One amendment to the law - I would make all drivers responsible by default for any collision with a non-powered road user (bike, walker, etc)

:shock: :?:

So you would be happy to get charged with dangerous driving if you were tootling along at 20mph and a child or cyclist suddenly appears 2 feet in front of you from behind a parked van and you end up knocking them down?......

I wouldn't be happy of course but I would have to accept that I was driving too fast in the circumstances. The busier the area the more risk there is of children etc emerging unexpectedly.
Cyclists have the same problem in reverse - passing parked vehicles you keep your distance (1 metre ish) as you have to assume that you are invisible and that a door might swing open in front of you and knock you off. It happens quite a lot. Still car drivers fault though, for being unobservant.

 

[John Brown]

"I know professional cyclists who agree with me."
Brilliant!
I can not compete with such watertight arguments as the Appeal to Higher Authority.

Sorry John but that's a pathetic grab at the straw that doesn't exist. :roll:

Apology accepted.

 

[MMUK]

"I know professional cyclists who agree with me."
Brilliant!
I can not compete with such watertight arguments as the Appeal to Higher Authority.

Sorry John but that's a pathetic grab at the straw that doesn't exist. :roll:

Apology accepted.

:roll:

And you've deliberately missed answering my other point about you seeing your own driving ability elevated way above the rest of us mere mortals.

I can only assume then that you own driving abilities are so mind numbingly perfect that it would be futile for you to try and explain how good you are to the rest of us, even an ex-professional* racing driver such as myself. I am sorry to have crossed swords with one of such elite status as your good self. :roll:


* 2001 and 2002 BTCC seasons with Trevor Humphrey Motorsport. And for the record, I'm not perfect by any means. I make mistakes as we all do, except yourself of course John :wink:

 

[John Brown]

"So you are saying that the vast majority of drivers don't indicate to turn left? That's how your comment comes across."
That is how it seems, sometimes. A lot don't indicate at all, and don't know when to turn their lights on either.


"So far your comments give the impression that you see your own driving abilities elevated to a much higher level than the rest of us and that you are one of the safest road users. IME, it's these drivers that can be among the most incompetent of all, just as bad as a testosterone fueled teenager in an EVO or Scooby."
Hardly. You are putting words into my mouth here. All I have claimed is that I indicate before manouvering. If you think that means means my driving abilities are elevated to a much higher level than the rest of you, then I won't comment.

 

[MMUK]

That is how it seems, sometimes. A lot don't indicate at all, and don't know when to turn their lights on either.

I agree it may seem like that at times. However I think your comment was a little too much like tarring all drivers with the same brush. I do agree fully about using lights, or lack of using them. Some people seem to think that DRLs are a substitute :roll: Thank you EU :evil:

Hardly. You are putting words into my mouth here. All I have claimed is that I indicate before manouvering. If you think that means means my driving abilities are elevated to a much higher level than the rest of you, then I won't comment.

Maybe you should look at how you word your comments as that is how it was construed. I accept that the internet is a difficult place to express intention with just words which is why we have to be even more careful how we construct our sentences.

 

[Preston]

 

[RossJarvis]

Interesting to see that this thread is still running. I didn't read further in than this last page but am intrigued by the comments that some people think you can't find an objective way to determine if you are a good driver or not. Anyone can join the Institute of Advanced Motorists or RoSPA or just pop up at open days and get an assessment of their driving, often by serving Police Officers who've been trained to drive well and to observe and teach others. You can then decide to focus on learning how to become a better driver by taking further training.

If you haven't considered this route, you don't know if you are a good driver and may well be awful. If you do go down this route you are likely to become a better driver. Instructors from these organisations often comment that many poor drivers think they are good, so good in fact that they don't feel the need to take additional training to improve their driving.

Personally I think the best place to start is to assume that you are not actually a good driver, seek assessment and professional training and then you will become a better driver. One of the benefits of this is that your insurance premiums may come down as it is statistically shown that "advanced/further-trained" drivers are less likely to have accidents. Probably due to them not suffering from what causes many accidents, which is over-confidence in their own abilities.

 

[n0legs]

just as bad as a testosterone fueled teenager in an EVO or Scooby.

It's not just teenagers :wink:
and I drive mine like a lunatic :twisted:

 

[Finial]

When I'm riding a bike I often think that 95% of drivers are worse than average

Where are all these good drivers? I ride every day on a single lane road with parking. Until I started riding right out in the lane to stop them, just about every single driver would pass dangerously close rather than wait a few seconds until there was room to do so in accordance with the Highway Code.

And as for bikes wobbling, that's what they do! I can't ride a dead straight line even when I'm not having to swerve round potholes. What worries bike riders is that most drivers don't give enough space. Even the police, not noted for being pro cycling, say the driver was at fault in the majority of bike/motor vehicle accidents.

 

[riclepp]

I think a line needs to be drawn in the sand here folks, as this appears to becomming a slagging off match rather than sensible, resoned debate. Long and short, there are good drivers, bad drivers as there are motorcyclist, pushbikers and no one is perfect. People speed and people don't speed. Some read the high way code regulary and some never read it once the driving test is passed. There are people who speed and those that don't you speed and get caught it is your own fault if you intentionally break the speed limits.

So let us all sit in a nice big circle, hold hands and sing kumbyar......

 

[JustBen]

There's a Highway Code?!?

 

[Seagoon]

There's a Highway Code?!?

Dunno . Maybe they would have told us if we had ever taken a test :twisted:

 

[Lons]

Well, the last thread reached 227 posts.. #-o

Surely this one can't - can it? Must have been thrashed to death by now :roll:

 

[John Brown]

Well, the last thread reached 227 posts.. #-o

Surely this one can't - can it? Must have been thrashed to death by now :roll:

Well, I expect it can if we all keep adding comments like this.
Can we open a book on how many posts it gets to?

 

[doorframe]

I'm sure it would trundle on a bit more if I said that the speeders were probably all Mac users who can't sharpen for toffee.

 

[RogerS]

I'm sure it would trundle on a bit more if I said that the speeders were probably all Mac users who can't sharpen for toffee.

But Jacob doesn't speed :lol:

Thinking a bit more about cyclists and harking back to when I used to ride a bike as a kid, seems to me that these days cyclists are not quite as road/pedestrian-friendly as they were then. For example, I seem to remember having a wing mirror to check before I pulled out to go past parked cars. These days I have yet to see a cyclist even bother to look over their shoulder.

And what happened to bicycle bells?

 

[Jacob]

I'm sure it would trundle on a bit more if I said that the speeders were probably all Mac users who can't sharpen for toffee.

But Jacob doesn't speed :lol:

Been done 3 times! Not because I think I'm an ace driver - just lack of attention, 35 ish in 30 zone every time. I now stick firmly to the limit. More and more people do as they get more points on their licences, and the roads get safer.

...... These days I have yet to see a cyclist even bother to look over their shoulder.

They do if they can. It has to be a very quick glance or they veer off course.

And what happened to bicycle bells?

I've got one. Most do. It annoys some pedestrians however. Annoys them even more if you come up and pass them without warning.

 

[DrPhill]

There's a Highway Code?!?

Only for bad drivers. Good drivers make it up as they go along.