Mdf Toybox.

[Scrit]

As probably one of the few here who's ever batch manufactured these here's my two pennorth. 12mm is not strong enough to withstand a good kicking, 15mm may be OK but is relatively uncommon thickness, so I'd plump for 18mm. The extra weight makes the object less moveable when the little dears decide to use it as a climbing frame. I used to dowel and glue construct which produced a square, rigid and extremely strong carcass well capable of withstanding racking motions, but failing that I'd biscuit joint. Avoid screws and pins/nails as far as possible as they can become a danger to children in the event of a breakage. Paints should be to the appropriate child-safe standard (search the site as I've put this in replies in the past) and lids require anti-slam or child-safe stays - try Ikea, Woodfit or Isaac Lord.

Scrit

 

[engineer one]

i think you are right about the relative strenghts, scrit, as usual.

however i do think that toy boxes, like all storage, but especially tool boxes soon become too small for their intended use, in particular these days when the kids seem to get new toys everyday :lol:

so maybe there is something for making a small box which may well
be adequate in 12mm whilst you discover what is actually needed.

have to say if i were to do things these days and had small kids i would think about a kind of japanese staircase tansu which could lead up to a window, and have storage under neath giving them a play area as well.

paul :wink:

 

[Scrit]

so maybe there is something for making a small box which may well be adequate in 12mm whilst you discover what is actually needed.

All the furniture I designed was the same - it had to withstand my 85kg mass bouncing (gently) up and down on it whilst being held togeher with only half the dowels and no glue. Happy to report that it all did.

If in doubt about the sizing issue, go for a bedding box size as it can then do double duty later in life

Scrit

 

[Colin C]

Thanks Scrit

As I was asked by one of my customers to make a toy box and will have a look in Ikea for a stay

Bonus as I have one down the road from me

 

[Gerome]

Hi guys,thanks for all the replies,everybody this site are so helpful,its good that you all take the time to give a newbie advice!
Its given me a lot to think about, different people go for different methods.
As for the lid.i was thinking of hinged with a cut out at the front for the fingers,this seems to be used allot,the only thing i was thinking about was fixing a hinge to end grain MDF?any thoughts?
The other thing is,as i said it will be painted(white),when its finished,my wifes aunt is an artist and will paint a design on it,what type of paint would be best for me to use that could then have a design painted over the top,and what would be best to then seal it?
Thanks again for all the replies and i'm sorry about the extra questions!

 

[Fishmat]

You can fix to end grain MDF but for something like a toy box I would not advise it. If you use cranked hinges at least you can get some fixings into the face of the MDF. If you are using thin (15mm or less) it may be best to use small nuts and bolts through the hinge.

The cutout at the front is a great idea but don't stop there. Do the sides as well. If the lid slams down you will have eliminated approx. 70% of possible finger holds.

 

[Paul Chapman]

the only thing i was thinking about was fixing a hinge to end grain MDF?any thoughts?

If I am going to fit conventional hinges and other hardware to MDF, I often lip the MDF with solid wood, using glue and biscuits. Alternatively, if you are able to use the concealed type of hinge like the ones used on kitchen cabinets (they fit into a 35mm hole), they will fit into MDF quite firmly (but you would need to use 18mm MDF for this type of hinge).

Cheers :wink:

Paul

PS One dodge that you can use when fitting screws into end grain is to drill a hole and glue in a fibre Rawlplug and then screw into that. This also works when doors have been removed several times and the screw holes have become enlarged. Simply drill out the hole a bit larger and glue in a fibre Rawlplug (they come in various diameters and lengths)

 

[Freetochat]

I don't know whether it is rumour being passed around, but is it not a requirement that tops have to have slow closing stays to prevent the lid from dropping, and air flow to prevent suffocation on this type of product?

 

[Shultzy]

Eric - If you want to put a removable lid safely away, then make the sides and base protrude a couple of inches at the back. Put a groove down each side and then slot the lid down the grooves.

 

[engineer one]

still not happy about the lid, but i agree kitchen hinges might well be the way to go.

as for paint, first you must seal the mdf, either with watered down pva, or mdf sealant, which is available from the sheds. b&q etc.

you need a child friendly paint, so would suggest water based,or acrylics that are designed for use in children environments. a roller is a good way to paint mdf. however, i have sprayed and it produces a decent finish.

the advantage of acrylics is that you can paint over it, and then use a water based clear varnish.

paul :wink:

 

[Scrit]

As for the lid.i was thinking of hinged with a cut out at the front for the fingers, this seems to be used a lot, the only thing i was thinking about was fixing a hinge to end grain MDF?any thoughts?

On commesrially-made boxes yes it is but you still need a child-safety closer mechanism to prevent the lid dropping onto heads, etc. As others have said if you use a decent quality serrated tip screw such as Spax or Reisser in conjunction with glue it will hold well, but all the screws are doing is preventing shear breakage after the glue has set - it's the glue which does all the work. BTW MDF has no real grain in the same way as wood

what type of paint would be best for me to use that could then have a design painted over the top, and what would be best to then seal it?

MDF needs to be sealed BEFORE it's painted with "MDF Sealant" (available form any reputable paint supplier) - at least 2 coats on surfaces with 4 to 6 coats on edges, flatted back between coats with a Scotch grey cloth (Machine Mart, car paint suppliers). The finish shout be capable of taking a decorative paint so needs to be either a matt or semi-matt and decorative work is best done with something like acrylics. Avoid paints manufactured outside of the EU and look for the relevant Child Safe painty spec. - I'd recommend West Country Finishes as a supplier. And as I say there was an extensive thread on this same subject here on this forum about a year ago

We used to attach lids with simple butt hinges - low cost, easy to install and low profile (unlike kitchen hinges which are, incidentally normally sprung - a trap hazard). Never had a return on any of them.

I don't know whether it is rumour being passed around, but is it not a requirement that tops have to have slow closing stays to prevent the lid from dropping, and air flow to prevent suffocation on this type of product?

For commercially produced stuff yes it is - technically a toy box might be deemed to come under the Toy Regulations, hence the requirement

Scrit

 

[engineer one]

scrit as usual your comments are aposite and properly considered.

my concern with any of these kinds of projects are the old fashioned ones, kids never do what you expect, so anything you can do to protect yourself from their actions has to be good, particularly if you are getting paid for the job, and are thus liable legally.

i accept that kitchen hinges may well not be right, but i do wonder whether cheaper butt hinges are able to withstand the rigours of modern kids who seem less well behaved with their toys. ( or is that what our folks said too :roll: :? )

i think the thing about putting doors on a toy box is that then the kids can actually use it to play within without too many problems of getting lost there, and of course the doors are easier make so that as to stop fingers getting caught where possible, without putting those long plastic strips everywhere.

i do also think there is something to be said for putting a rope handle at each end knotted inside the box. this ensures at least 4 air holes :twisted:

as for the painting i think we both agree on that (nice to have one agreement with you :lol: :lol: )

paul :wink: