LONG REVIEW OF SIP 12" TABLE SAW (FINALLY)

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Mike.C

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I have been trying to convince myself that this review is late because of the long wait I had in finding and booking an electrician (a rare breed in this one horse village) to install a 16 amp circuit and new consumer unit in my workshop, Christmas, and then the problems uploading the pictures. But although this was true in the first place, if I am perfectly honest I have been holding onto it because despite taking each photo a number of times, I think that they are a load of rubbish, and so I have been putting off posting them because they are really embarrassing.
You see I am a bit of a techno silly person and after years of promising myself a digital camera, I have only recently got one and I am still leaning how to use it. The old point and shoot rubbish that the salesman gave me does not work (in my case anyway).

So why post them now I hear you ask? Well to put it in a nutshell I had no choice, because members like Tony who can get their machines one day and then knock out photo’s and some words about it the next have put me to shame.
I just hope that after all this it helps someone and has not been a waste of time.
By the way Alf thank you for your post and tips on uploading photos.


I purchased the 12” saw from West Skelston Services Ltd because they were doing a package deal of all the extras (saw, rear extension table, wheel kit, and sliding table) along with free delivery, and when you consider that just one of the boxes (the saw) weighs in at 220kg’s I thought that free delivery was a very good offer.


The saw and other parts arrived in 6 separate boxes and the goods within all but one of them were very well packed. The only box I had a problem with was the one that contained the rail for the sliding table (not in photo) which was ripped and broken open at one end.



I received the rail first and included within this box was the mitre/cross cutting fence for the sliding table. When I opened it I found that the 2 plastic thumbscrews by which you adjust the fence were broken. I presume this was done when the box was damaged.

When I received the other boxes the next day there were a few parts missing, nuts, bolts, plastic knobs, push stick etc. I contacted the dealer and I was assured that I would receive replacements in a few days, but despite various phone calls, I was still waiting for them 4 weeks later.
To be fair West Skelston Services, they did get the area manager from SIP to contact me early on and he also said that I would receive the replacement goods within a few days

In the end I had to phone SIP head office after which I did receive all of the parts except for the push stick, which they claim (even though it states in the manual check list that it is included) does not come with the saw.
These few bits were only a minor problem, but I have mentioned them and how long they took to send them out because IMHO when you buy a product you are also buying any help you may need from the companies customer service department, and so if possible I would want to know what they are like before hand.

This table saw is a new model (01446) and SIP has increased the warranty over the 10” model from 2 to 3 years which gives me a lot of confidence in the saw.
It has a 12 (315mm) blade, 4hp motor, (3000 watts), 4000rpm, 100mm depth of cut at 90 degrees and 80mm at 45 degrees. The table working height is 860mm, and the main table size is 800mm x 600mm. It comes with 2 x cast iron side extensions that measure 800mm x 440mm each, which I believe makes it slightly bigger then the 10” model.
Normally these extensions are fitted to both the left and right hand side of the table, but if you get the optional sliding table you can fit both of them and their 2 adjustable legs to the right hand side. You can then move the front and rear fence rails level with the left hand side of the table (see photo), and then because the measuring scale will no longer be in the right place you can remove it and use the replacement that comes with the sliding table. It has to be fitted 200mm from the edge of the table, which is in line with the blade. (see photo). This then gives you 52” inches from the blade to the fence.






You will certainly need help to put this saw together because at 220kg it is a heavy beast. It is even pretty awkward to fit the cast iron extensions on your own.
When you unpack the saw you will find that it comes inverted so that you can fit the cabinet panels and feet before you turn it up the right way.
The base goes together (see photo) with no problems at all, but when fitting the feet you have to make sure you fit the correct ones to the front because these are pre threaded to accept the bolts for the wheel kit. Even if you do not get the kit to begin with you may want it in the future, so if you do not want to have to turn it upside down again take care.









SIP supply a length of 100mm pipe which you connect to the shroud around the blade and then to the inside of the port which goes through the base (see photo)



As this is only a short length of pipe so it is not to bad, but the one they supply to run from the top of the crown guard down to the smaller connection on the 100mm port (see photo) is total rubbish, and must be made from the cheapest rubbish known to man. It does not keep it’s shape and IMHO the diameter is to small to be of any use, so I am going to get a couple of adaptor’s which will allow me to use a larger pipe.



While on the subject of dust extraction it appears that some owners have trouble cleaning/removing dust from under the 10” model and have to undo 6 bolts so that they can remove a side panel from the cabinet. Well as you can see (see photo) SIP have taken care of this problem (on this model anyway) by fitting a door on the other side of the cabinet, which with a turn of the knob allows you to lean in and clean the inside. Why they didn't’t just make the panel on the other side into a door I don’t know.



I did read somewhere (on this site I think) that the mitre gauge is very sloppy in the slot on this type of saw, but I have to say that this is not the case on this model (or this saw). But what I will say is IMHO the mitre gauge itself is rubbish (see photo), it is very cheap looking and I do not like or trust the stick measurement decal, so I replaced it with an Incra.





The fence is excellent and when locked down is impossible move. I was very surprised that out of the box I did not have to it adjust anything and that it was perfectly square to the blade.
The fine adjustment is also very good and the magnification is spot on.







To help stop kickback on certain cuts, it also comes with a aluminium short fence (see photo) which when needed can be bolted to the full one.



The 40T 12” (315mm) universal blade is quite good and gives a clean cut even after a couple of months use. (see photo)





One thing that I like about the blade height and blade angle adjustment wheels is the fold in knobs (see photo) which means you don’t bang your knees on them, and as you can see from the photo they have added a blade locking lever to the rise and fall wheel.







The sliding table is excellent and was very easy to set up and make square with the main table. It has a angle adjustable mitre/cross cutting fence (see photo) which extends to 1500mm and has a flip stop for repeat cuts. It also has a big cam action work clamp.









The 2200mm rail on which the table runs along has an adjustable leg on each end, and these insure the table feels very sturdy.
If need be this system (which is almost, if not the same as the Scheppach) allows you to reset the rail in numerous positions along the length of the saw.
I know that some people have not got enough room for one of these, but IMHO what ever saw you buy/have, if it is at all possible to fit one, you should go for it, because it has a 101 different uses.
If space is tight it can be easily removed and stored with just a turn of a knob.

The final table is the rear one (see photo) and it is a god send. IMHO the only thing wrong with it is that it does not fold down, but this is a small price to pay for having a feed off table.





Even though I do not usually have to move my saw I still think the wheel kit (see photo) is worth having especially if you have a smaller workshop.
The trouble with most unversal wheel kits is they do not allow the machine to sit on the floor when not in use and even with the brakes on you will find that they often move with the slightest off presure. But you do not have that problem with this kit.









So what is the saw like? “Very nice indeed“. I have never had a 12” saw before and the extra 2” and 4hp motor certainly made light work of the 100mm teak, oak and a number of other hardwoods I cut with it, with not the slightest bit of strain or hesitation.
The weight of the machine means there is very vibration.
It is quite, although not as quite the Scheppach.
The brake stops the blade very quickly.
The sliding table rail has 2 adjustable legs which means it is very sturdy.
I love the size of the front/rear rails and main/extensions tables which allow you to rip a 8x4 sheet on the right hand side of the blade, and then combined with the sliding table it allows you to crosscut these sheets too.
The fit and finish of the saw is very good and except for the a bit of chipped paint work on the edge of the extension table and the doggy crown guard piping I am very happy with it.
I note that Tony says that he looked and played with 4 SIP 10” models and the finishing quality left a lot to be desired, well I do not know about the 10” models (members who own them will know better) but I have to say that I have not found this with my saw. Maybe it has something to do with this being a new model or I have just been lucky. But lets not forget at £400+ (£600+ with the sliding table), you get hell of a lot of saw for your money with the SIP.
On the other hand I am sure that at £579 for a 10” saw with a sliding table and rear extension included, you will not get a better price then at Axminster and if the finish quality of their saw is a lot better then the SIP 10” models, as according to Tony it sure seems to be, then you have got to be onto a winner.

There is one thing for certain what ever clone you go for SIP, AXMINSTER, FOX and at least one other, from my experience and what I have read on this site you won’t be disappointed.

Cheers

Mike

EDIT Sorry but it was only after posting this review that I noticed how big the photos are.
 
A

Anonymous

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Nice review Mike =D>

I think the choice between Axminster and SIP is a tough one as both are fundamentally the same machine.

Just to clarify one point, I didn't mean to say that the SIP quality/finish/attention to detail was low, just that the Axminster I received was finished to a higher standard than the SIPs I have played with.

If the Axi hadn't been available, then a 10" SIP would be sitting in my garage right now
 

Mike.C

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Alf,

Mike, a tour de force. =D>

Thanks Alf, now where did I go wrong with the pictures? For want of a better word to me they seem very fuzzy, or out of focus. If this is the case then I do not know what to do because the camera I have (Fuji FinePix) does not have any focus or zoom lens on it.

Another problem I had was with the flash reflecting off the fence etc, but if I turned the flash off then the pictures were to dark. Could it be something to do with the lighting in my workshop, I have 8 strip lights?
As I said I tried to improve the quality using Adobe Photoshop (the starter edition) and pressing Autofix but it never made much difference.

Once again thanks for your idiots guide to uploading photos, even I couldn't get that wrong.

Tony,

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nice review Mike =D>

I think the choice between Axminster and SIP is a tough one as both are fundamentally the same machine.

Just to clarify one point, I didn't mean to say that the SIP quality/finish/attention to detail was low, just that the Axminster I received was finished to a higher standard than the SIPs I have played with.

If the Axi hadn't been available, then a 10" SIP would be sitting in my garage right now

Thanks Tony

Yes, now I see what you mean about the quality. In other words the manufacture has just gone that tad further in their finishing of the Axminster saws, and I must admit that the overall look of the Axminster is more pleasing on the eye then the other clones.
From what you say I certainly think you got a bargain there Tony.

B_H, SPD and johnnyb thank you for your support.

Now I must see if the local collage does night classes on to take a decent photo, but there again thats means less time in the workshop. ](*,)

Cheers

Mike
 

Alf

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Mike, I use a Fuji as well, which one d'you have? But I also have two advantages I don't think you do. 1. A great big plastic roof letting in a load of light so I hardly ever use flash. 2. Most importantly, a tripod. The tripod makes a heap of difference, even though it's a cheap one. The answer to the light I'll have to leave to someone else 'cos I haven't had to solve it yet, thank goodness. 'Course there's also 3. Load up smaller pics and they'll immediately look better. :wink:

Cheers, Alf
 

Adam

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Mike.C":3fncslk1 said:
For want of a better word to me they seem very fuzzy, or out of focus. If this is the case then I do not know what to do because the camera I have (Fuji FinePix) does not have any focus or zoom lens on it.

Camera shake in low light conditions with a flash that isn't really up to it? As ALF said, a triped makes a world of difference, as does getting a cheap floodlight like this

p1307168_l.jpg


Are only £5.49 from Screwfix. They really brighten up the photos and make it a lot easier on the camera.

The review was great - so well done on getting it all together.

Adam
 

Mike.C

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Alf,

Mike, I use a Fuji as well, which one d'you have?

This is the one I have

http://www.fujifilm.co.uk/digital/camer ... p?&flash=8

While trying to find a link for you I have just found out that they have now discontinued my model. Also I came across some really nice kit. Look at this one for £200

http://www.purelygadgets.co.uk/prodinfo ... t=5~21~145
it looks like something the old paparazzi would use. I thought that cameras like this were all 35mm. Does that mean that you can fit the big telephoto lens to them?

Anyway if I want to continue to take photos should I bin the Fuji and buy a better model with a zoom lens, or is the fault all at my door and I will get better with practise?
Thats the good thing about digital cameras over the film variety, if you make mistakes it does not cost you anything and all you have to do is erase them and try again.
'
Alf,
'Course there's also 3. Load up smaller pics and they'll immediately look better.

Can you explain? :oops: :oops:

Adam,

Mike.C wrote:
For want of a better word to me they seem very fuzzy, or out of focus. If this is the case then I do not know what to do because the camera I have (Fuji FinePix) does not have any focus or zoom lens on it.


Camera shake in low light conditions with a flash that isn't really up to it? As ALF said, a triped makes a world of difference, as does getting a cheap floodlight like this



Are only £5.49 from Screwfix. They really brighten up the photos and make it a lot easier on the camera.

The review was great - so well done on getting it all together.

Adam

Adam thank you for the info and the kind words about the review.

I will get myself a tripod and as for the floodlight I have already got one, but I would never thought of using it for taking photos.

Once again Alf and the rest of you guys thank you for your kind words.

Cheers

Mike
 

Alf

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Mike.C":4bpywlxf said:
Alf,

Mike, I use a Fuji as well, which one d'you have?

This is the one I have

http://www.fujifilm.co.uk/digital/camer ... p?&flash=8

While trying to find a link for you I have just found out that they have now discontinued my model.
This is mine - also discontinued. :roll:

Mike.C":4bpywlxf said:
Look at this one for £200

http://www.purelygadgets.co.uk/prodinfo ... t=5~21~145
it looks like something the old paparazzi would use. I thought that cameras like this were all 35mm. Does that mean that you can fit the big telephoto lens to them?
Coo. Dunno but it looks the part, doesn't it?

Mike.C":4bpywlxf said:
Anyway if I want to continue to take photos should I bin the Fuji and buy a better model with a zoom lens, or is the fault all at my door and I will get better with practise?
Well zoom's nice, but it's not essential. The tripod'll make a lot of difference so I reckon unless you want to justify a new camera (and hell, why not...) I should try that first.

Mike.C":4bpywlxf said:
Alf,
'Course there's also 3. Load up smaller pics and they'll immediately look better.

Can you explain? :oops: :oops:
Sorry, a bit facetious. :oops: I just meant if the finished picture is smaller then all the detail, or lack of, is smaller too. :D

Cheers, Alf
 

Mike.C

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Alf,

Mike.C wrote:
Anyway if I want to continue to take photos should I bin the Fuji and buy a better model with a zoom lens, or is the fault all at my door and I will get better with practise?

Well zoom's nice, but it's not essential. The tripod'll make a lot of difference so I reckon unless you want to justify a new camera (and hell, why not...) I should try that first.

Yeah your right, I will try the tripod (and lighting) first.

Alf,

Mike.C wrote:
Quote:
Alf,
'Course there's also 3. Load up smaller pics and they'll immediately look better.


Can you explain? :oops: :oops:

Sorry, a bit facetious. :oops: I just meant if the finished picture is smaller then all the detail, or lack of, is smaller too. :D

Yep I'm with you.

Cheers

Mike
 

Alf

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'Course having said you don't need a new camera... can any bright spark tell me what's wrong with this one? If you want to look the part on a budget... :shock:

Cheers, Alf
 

Paul.J

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Alf.
I have the Fuji S3500.Which have had now for about 5 years and have had no trouble with it.Mainly bought for the lens 10x.
I think the one your looking at is the one after,so should be even better.

A little tip for the strong flash is to stand back as far as you can and zoom in on the object,this will make the flash weaker on the object your taking,or try to diffuse the flash by covering the flash with something like tracing paper.
On the old SLRs i used to use an filters or handkerchief.
Paul.J.
 

Mike.C

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As I mentioned in the review the dust extraction pipe for the crown guard is not very good at all, and so I want to get a couple of adapters and a larger diameter pipe (say around 60mm), so can anyone point me in the direction of a company who maybe able to help?

Cheers

Mike
 

martlewis

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Alf":168byyac said:
'Course having said you don't need a new camera... can any bright spark tell me what's wrong with this one? If you want to look the part on a budget... :shock:

Cheers, Alf

I have the Fuji S5000, the older version of that camera and I must say it's excellent. In my day job have numerous business customers in the photography trade and to quote one of them "the fuji is as near to an SLR camera you can get on a budget". Buy it :lol:
 

Adam

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Mike.C":uc7nnjtk said:
can anyone point me in the direction of a company who maybe able to help? Cheers Mike

Don't axminster do some pipes which have stepped diameter and you simply cut at each end to suit the individual requirements?

Try either

Heat shrink sleeve

http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-Heat ... -22358.htm

HS6331_l.jpg


Or this was what I was thinking of:

http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-Rubb ... -22821.htm

NUMRED_l.jpg


http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-Soil ... -23300.htm

Hows that for starters?

Adam
 

Mike.C

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Perfect Adam, a combination of the heat shrink, an adaptor, SWMBO old hoover pipe and a bung going into my metal ducting should do the trick. Nice one.

Cheers

Mike
 

Adam

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For maximum "suck" you should try and use the maximum pipe diameter you can, until the last possible moment, and only then step it down. Pipe reducers as shown above do work, but the longer the length - at a smaller diameter, the less air gets pulled. If possible, you'd be better taking a large diamater pipe as close as can be, even if that meant turning a small reduction plate out of wood etc.

Adam
 
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