Kity 419 Sliding Table Angle Stop Spring Clip Help

[GroundFig]

Hi all,

I'm having a bit of trouble with the angle stop from my Kity 419 sliding table. The stop is there to set the position of the rotating arm to 0 degrees for a right angled cross cut. The centre of the stop protrudes and can be pushed back into the body to enable the arm to move freely to other angles, then popped back up when required.

The stop in my recently acquired example was seized. I managed to free it up, but in the process, the two parts separated, as can be seen in the photos. The central section is held in by friction supplied by a sort of circular spring clip that locates in a groove in the centre of the body.

The problem is that I can't get the middle part back in again! it seems to be pretty impossible to squeeze all the bits of the clip together at the same time as pushing it into the hole. It's a bit like a circlip, but without the bits that can be grabbed by an insertion tool, so I can't quite see how to do it. I was hoping that there might be some cunning method to getting these things back together again, and if so, someone might be kind enough to give me some direction.

Can anyone help?

 

[CHJ]

You need a 'piston ring' compression tool type device.

• Drill a hole in a piece of hard wood or brass/aluminium to be a good fit on the pin body.
  Saw it in half down the length of the hole with a fine kerf saw.
  Use this to clamp the pin and circlip so that the clip is compressed into its groove.
  Push/slide the pin into its housing

 

[GroundFig]

Ah, brilliant! That makes sense, thanks so much. I'll give it a go tomorrow.

Cheers.

 

[GroundFig]

Success!

I originally made a wooden clamp as suggested by CHJ. I found that this almost worked, but it was made difficult by the small chamfer around the top of the hole that meant that the spring jumped out as it got to that point. More effort may have eventually worked, but in the end I bought a fuel hose clamp clip, which worked very well as the thin metal would fit into the chamfer, and it was easy to open and close.

I just thought I'd mention it in case anyone else ever runs into the same problem. The specific clip was a Mikalor W1, 10mm.

Thanks again to CHJ for showing me the way to go.

 

[Eric The Viking]

Well done!

I wrestled with just the same problem. I think I used brute force in the end.

One trick is to use a very slippery lubricant such as Plus Gas (used for unseizing rusted threads, etc.), get the thing together, flush it clean with something like meths, then re-lubricate it with Liberon machine wax, or your metal protector of choice.

 

[GroundFig]

Using Plusgas is a good idea - I think I used that to unseize it in the first place, I didn't think to use it to put it back together.

Definitely a good idea to keep it lubricated, so thanks for the tip as I don't want the same thing to happen again (as by then I'll definitely have lost the spring clip!)

I would wonder why they designed it as they did, but then I remind myself that this is Kity and it is just another example of their unique approach to engineering. Don't get me started on adjusting the blade alignment :?

 

[Eric The Viking]

Don't get me started on adjusting the blade alignment :?

If it's like mine. it has an arrangement that's so stupid it makes the Charge of the Light Brigade look like an act of calculated brilliance,

I'm covered in paint chips and plaster dust at the moment (so not reaching for a camera), but here's a rough representation in SketchUp:

There's one of these at each end of the saw, supporting the motor, blade and rise+fall mechanism. The squared-up "U" is where the 8mm pivot bars sit. Two countersunk Allen bolts go in the slots vertically, to hold the pivots as close to the top surface of the table as possible, so that the tilt axis approximates to where the saw blade breaks the surface. They're in slots so you can align the blade properly to the mitre tracks of the table.

Given what you have to do to adjust it, the obvious approach would be to put a flat plate under this, with two threaded holes (M5) so that you can loosen and re-tighten the Allen bolts through the table in pairs. It would be easy: slacken off one end gently; thump till aligned; re-tighten.

Nope. Kity in their wisdom have a nut on the end of EACH bolt. This makes it almost impossible to do the job properly. They are very hard to get a spanner onto (MUCH worse if you have the sliding carriage fitted), and it's extremely hard to tighten and loosen them very slightly.

The fix is really simple to do:

The hole spacing for the M5 bolts IIRC is either 32mm or 35mm (CHECK this: I can't remember!). Either make two M5 threaded holes in a bit of steel to that spacing, or tack weld some M5 nuts to a bit of steel plate (with holes under them). This goes under the "trunnion", instead of the nuts, lockwashers and washers that Kity provided.

You can then loosen them off, adjust and tighten with only an Allen key from above the table. If you're worried about them working loose, seal with Loctite.

The Axminster TS 200 has a proper threaded plate (it's mechanically extremely similar to the Kity), so they can't work loose that often.

I think there are a couple of cast ribs on the underside yon may need to file flat, but that's trivial.

I went down the welded nuts route as I couldn't find any thick plate at the time I was doing the mod (found it afterwards, as usual!).

Hope that helps. The original setup is so horrible, I struggle to believe anybody could set the thing up properly outside the factory.

E.

PS: the spacing may be 40mm (brain is stuffed).

 

[GroundFig]

That's an excellent tip, thanks. I'll have a go at making something out of some steel plate as you suggest. For the actual adjustment, do you just loosen one end a very slight amount (leaving the other end fully tightened) and then tap/bash into alignment or do you undo both ends a little? When you do the tapping/bashing is there any specific point to hit that is optimum?

When I set mine up, it took literally hours of randomly undoing screws, bashing in various places underneath, doing up screws and repeat ad infinitum until some level of accuracy was achieved. I then changed the blade and it all went out of alignment again :shock:

As you say, getting to those nuts is hilariously ridiculous. I like the fact that you can't even take the sides off the thing without unbolting it from the stand as the lower side bolts are underneath with insufficient clearance to get anything on them (or I couldn't anyway). Then you finally see the alignment nuts and realise that you can just about get to one of them on each side, but not the other without taking off the sliding table rails. Aargh!

 

[Eric The Viking]

I think you need to loosen both bolts in one end slightly, and concentrate on just that one end.

I'd centre the other one roughly, and whilst it's still disassembled, it's probably worth scribing a centreline mark on your new plate and on the 'trunnion' casting so you can see when it's aligned.

I've smoothed off the top and bottom surfaces of the trunnion too, so that it can slide relatively easily between the underside of the table and my new clamping plate. I don't think it needs any sort of lubrication although greasing the 8mm bar lightly will stave off rust.

You'll find the whole 'upgrade' operation goes better with the saw upside-down with one end hanging off the edge of the bench, so you can (a) see what you're doing, and (b) get at one pair of Allen bolts at a time with a wrench. No blade fitted, obviously.

The whole thing is so infuriating that I really can't understand why Kity did it that way in the first place. I also can't understand why the bolts had to go exactly over the frame and end panels! The Axminster TS200 has the two pairs very slightly further apart - about 10mm, IIRC, and that may be the reason why. It also has much more civilized 'trunnions' altogether - machined steel thingys that are inherently more slippy.

I'm fairly certain Steve Maskery covers alignment on his Compleat Tablesaw DVD, and there are quite a few videos out there on YouTube. I use a dial gauge indexed against one edge of the mitre track, and I agree it is really fiddly to do.

I am a bit surprised about the effect of changing a blade though. That sounds like something's wrong. Is it possible one of the two blades is warped, and throwing off the measurements? I usually mark the teeth with felt pen, and double check. If you rotate the blade 180 deg. it's a good check - any error will be magnified, but it's worth rotating it once completely with the dial gauge touching, to see if there is any significant runout. I'm pretty sure the main bearings for the arbour are a standard size (don't ask me!), and should be easily obtained from bearing suppliers, so if it's a bearing/runout problem, they can be replaced. I have once removed the arbour on my Kity, but it's hard to do and I don't recommend it.

Purists will say you should measure to the sides of the teeth (alternate ones or every third tooth, depending on the grind angles), but if the plate itself is bent, you've a slim chance of getting it to run true, so measuring off the saw plate will alert you to any problem, before trying to park a small ballbearing on the corner of a piece of carbide :roll: .

E.

 

[GroundFig]

Thanks for all the advice, that's really helpful. When I've got a chunk of time available I'll give it a proper going over and try and get it set up once and for all. Making the changes you've outlined will make it a lot easier.