Just a thought.

[Bodrighy]

Looking at the type of work that turners produce I have become more and more convinced that the design of something is as, if not more, important than the skill of the turner. Since going pro I have been associating with a lot of highly qualified and skilled turners many better than me who produce top quality work that is uninspiring in design and a lot of new turners who, not knowing better, experiment and produce exciting pieces with tool marks and badly finished pieces that with a bit more skill would be first class. Am I alone in thinking that as craftspeople we should be promoting ingenuity, good design and innovation alongside the basic skills and tool work. Maybe we are and I am just not seeing it. I love seeing new turners trying something different instead of just copying someone, having a go and producing something that has that 'wow' factor. OK maybe I am sounding negative but I would love to see more badly turned but original ideas instead of the same copies of something that someone has done before. I haven't got the time to run a competition I am afraid but if I did I would go for something simple like a goblet or egg cup....Design something different and usable, something that makes you think " wish I had thought of that".
Stands back and waits for the flak LOL

Pete

 

[procell]

As a new turner everything I make has an element of luck to it. If it makes it to the finishing stage in one piece its a triumph.

 

[Dalboy]

OK maybe I am sounding negative but I would love to see more badly turned but original ideas instead of the same copies of something that someone has done before. .

Pete

I would not agree I would like to see something that is well turned whether it be a plain bowl etc or an original idea piece. I think the turners should get tool control and finish to a standard they are happy with.
I may not be a good turner as I don't spend all the time turning but I always try and make something that I would not be ashamed of due to a badly finished item with tool marks all over. As can be seen here http://s702.photobucket.com/user/diggerdelaney/library/Turnings

 

[Tazmaniandevil]

I do agree to a point Pete. I'm guilty of trying to run before I can walk.
I like to challenge myself by turning something I've not seen done before. What I'm not so good at is planning ahead so I can re-mount the piece for finishing, or finishing an area before moving on to a stage where re-mounting is too difficult without doing damage to other parts.
The result is often an interesting or quirky piece, which is badly finished. (Having said that, I've seen youtube videos by seasoned turners where the finish is not all that great.)
I think one of my issues is that I have so little time to spend turning, I get impatient to see the finished article before I pack up for the day. If I had more free time, I think I would be more likely to leave something until the next day/week/month I was able to return to it and finish it properly.
I think many new turners are probably in the same position, and time constraints mixed with impatience are behind the not so good finishes

 

[paulm]

I think there's room for coming at turning from both ends of the scale, some people are naturally artistic and creative and others are more interested or better at the making and techniques, each to their own.

Personally, I completely lack imagination and have long ago come to terms with that ! (hammer) :lol:

Cheers, Paul

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

Hi Paul. Don't spose you're free today to nip over here are you? I could use some advice and guidance about a deep oak fruit bowl I'm turning (a commission). I'll pm you my mobile in case you've lost it.

Cheers

 

[chipmunk]

Hi Pete,
I agree with you entirely that originality is part and parcel of being an excellent turner but I think I'd argue that it's probably one of the elements that separate the expert from the mediocre in almost every walk of life, isn't it? Given enough hours put-in I think almost anyone could become a competent turner but it takes a certain, probably innate, aesthetic eye and a degree of artistry I'd argue to create great work.

It isn't fashionable to say it but the problem I think is that it is IMHO down to nature, as opposed to nurture, as to whether this can be achieved by your average turner. I speak as one who aspires, and appreciates the skills in others greatly, but with hand on heart knows that deep down I just ain't really got it :|

I think you can try to encourage turners to achieve their potential for originality but for some, like me, that potential isn't much beyond slightly adapting the work of others and applying methods by rote; such as Golden Ratio principles and making sure the curves are flowing. I can't really see that it's possible to teach someone to produce ground breaking designs.

Jon

 

[yorkshirepudding]

Looking at the type of work that turners produce I have become more and more convinced that the design of something is as, if not more, important than the skill of the turner. Since going pro I have been associating with a lot of highly qualified and skilled turners many better than me who produce top quality work that is uninspiring in design and a lot of new turners who, not knowing better, experiment and produce exciting pieces with tool marks and badly finished pieces that with a bit more skill would be first class. Am I alone in thinking that as craftspeople we should be promoting ingenuity, good design and innovation alongside the basic skills and tool work. Maybe we are and I am just not seeing it. I love seeing new turners trying something different instead of just copying someone, having a go and producing something that has that 'wow' factor. OK maybe I am sounding negative but I would love to see more badly turned but original ideas instead of the same copies of something that someone has done before. I haven't got the time to run a competition I am afraid but if I did I would go for something simple like a goblet or egg cup....Design something different and usable, something that makes you think " wish I had thought of that".
Stands back and waits for the flak LOL

Pete

I agree totally. After eighteen months of turning I probably have a lot to learn still but there are only so many bowls and vases to be made. I'm now looking to make the transition from artisan to artist. I look for inspiration from ceramics and fine arts. Something that people will see and say "that was made by Frank". Along the way my woodturning skills will improve commensurate with my ambitions and creativity. (I hope).

 

[nev]

Hi Pete,
I agree with you entirely that originality is part and parcel of being an excellent turner but I think I'd argue that it's probably one of the elements that separate the expert from the mediocre in almost every walk of life, isn't it? Given enough hours put-in I think almost anyone could become a competent turner but it takes a certain, probably innate, aesthetic eye and a degree of artistry I'd argue to create great work.

It isn't fashionable to say it but the problem I think is that it is IMHO down to nature, as opposed to nurture, as to whether this can be achieved by your average turner. I speak as one who aspires, and appreciates the skills in others greatly, but with hand on heart knows that deep down I just ain't really got it :|

I think you can try to encourage turners to achieve their potential for originality but for some, like me, that potential isn't much beyond slightly adapting the work of others and applying methods by rote; such as Golden Ratio principles and making sure the curves are flowing. I can't really see that it's possible to teach someone to produce ground breaking designs.

Jon

+1

My turning skill is at the point where I know the what the tools can do, know what I can do with the tools, and given an idea I can probably come up with a decent approximation. It's the ideas bit I struggle with. Just aint got no imagination!
I guess there are those that are opposite in that they have great ideas but no ability or tool know how to attempt to create such items. I suppose they are the worlds 'designers', and leave the making up to others.
I do agree with Pete that it would be great for more ideas apart from the usual suspects though and would like to encourage those with more imagination than skill to have a go and not be worried about embarrassing themselves with less than finely finished products.
After all, I need more ideas that I can copy :wink:

 

[winemaker]

I never have a design just a rough idea :?: then I let it evolve as I turn it, or it goes wrong then I just make what i can from whats left. :lol:

 

[Bodrighy]

I am not saying that good design is more important than the skill of turning. I do believe however that the elements of good design are equally important for those who wish to turn pieces that are aesthetically pleasing as well as 'nicely turned.' Design can, to some extent, be learned and the idea that you have to be artistic and have a great imagination isn't true. You can learn to see why one piece is really beautiful and another that is almost identical isn't. Take a simple bowl for example. A flat bottom, straight sided bowl is sometimes the practical alternative but one that has a graceful curve and makes you want to pick it up and feel it wins hands down. Sometimes I see the pieces put into the competition and really like the way that the turner has tried to be different. It may not appeal to me as a piece but seeing someone trying to be different, thinking outside the norm is always good IMHO. When I am teaching I always start a new turner on spindle work and get them to turn beads, coves etc and often they get ideas straight away and want to do something with them and it is that willingness to go further with design that I look for. Experiment, play with shapes, look at other turners work, pottery sculpture etc and see what shapes appeal to you and what ideas you come up with.

Pete

Pete

 

[boysie39]

I would agree with you Pete , I dont turn any more ,but durning the 6/7 yrs that I was I never made a piece that could be recognized as something that was all mine .I just turned into a human copying machine . My tool work and finishing was as good as anyone's .But I often spent hours sitting in front of the lathe trying to think of something different to turn .

I remember you and CHJ discussing the ideas that could be taken from pottery and glass design , Others went even further and introduced us to far eastern thinking . I was over in an old friend of mine's workshop the other day and he was turning some posts for a staircase and I had never seen this type of work being done before .( Spindle work was not one of my favorites ) Hence I have never copied any of your long stemmed goblets. :lol:

So Pete you wont get any flak from me ,I see what you are thinking but if they are all like me I'm afraid it's going to be Status quo ???

 

[tekno.mage]

I kind of agree with Pete on this one - I too have seen a lot of very creative artistic work by "beginners" which has stunning design but novice quality turning and/or finishing, but I would never dismiss high quality, more traditional work by professionals.

One thing perhaps to consider is that professional turners are making a living by their skills and need to repeatably produce work that will sell and make a profit - and they probably know their own market and what will sell - which may well be high quality but more traditional turned work. There's nothing wrong with a with a high quality fruit bowl if that is what the customer wants and is prepared to pay for!

 

[Roger C]

Pete I agree with you 100% on both your posts . Design and finish are very important. Colour, beads, groves and other forms of embellishment will not make a bad design / form look good.

Copying other turners work is fine, but try to put a new twist on it to make it your own. By twist I mean colour stain, embellishment what you like.

To get a reasonable looking deign/form look at nature all the curves and lines you need are there. The other thing is sketch what you intend making and see how it looks, drawing only half the form / shape will also help.

The problem we all have is that each time we put a piece on the lathe we want to make a master piece. That is not going to happen every time; the pro’s will tell you they also have bad days.
Please remember the tool with so and so's grind or shape does not do the job in the end it is you behind the tool.

A method to try to improve is to post your mishap and ask for advice and critique.
Last if you like turning bowls try for the best form possible the same applies to hollow forms and platters.
Roger C

 

[finneyb]

How do people feel about the type of wood art seen at American Ass of Woodturner's 2013 Tampa Symposium, an example is below.

 

[Roger C]

Finneyb we are digressing but that is out of the box stuff great . Roger C

 

[Silverbirch]

Finney B, I don`t think your post is off topic at all. Work such as that which you posted, I find really inspiring.
I think the work we see from USA is often much more exciting than what we tend to see from UK turners. I do appreciate there is a much larger population of turners across the pond, but even so......
Many hobby turners aim simply to be able to turn a well finished conventional bowl, etc, and don`t want to go beyond that.
Others, (I would guess a minority), want to go further and aspire to produce original and creative work. Whether the latter do so by starting off simply and gradually spreading their wings,or by jumping in at the deep end, probably depends on their own personality and approach to life in general
Nothing wrong with either aspiration.
A flick through any copy of Woodturning Magazine suggests there is plenty of appetite for step by step instruction towards a predetermined outcome, alongside some more inspirational articles.

Ian

 

[finneyb]

http://www.woodturner.org/resources/bb/a_g_gallery/ Is AAW's (American Ass of Woodturners) Wood Art Gallery ie pieces for sale.

It takes a short time to load - once loaded click on a name and it takes you into that person's gallery with prices.

AAW took the view a few years ago to move into Wood Art as a means of progressing woodturning into new areas.

Brian

 

[KimG]

While I do enjoy the sort of stuff Brian has linked, from a purely turning perspective (as opposed to a combined turning and other craft skills) I do agree with Pete's notion, Good design does not necessarily mean flamboyant or extravagant, in other words we do not need to go to extreme lengths in order to achieve good design.
Good design comes from basic principles that are propounded in a variety of woodturning and design books by such authors as Richard Raffan and Ray Key, others too of course. While the turner need by no means be constrained to these exceptional craftsmen's own interpretations of such principles, nevertheless, having a good working understanding of them is what will give the amateur a solid foundation upon which to develop his own style while retaining a quality of design that will set his work above that which does does apply such principles.

An excellent point made by Richard Raffan in his books can be paraphrased thus:

" a bowl made from an exotic and elaborately grained timber will not last as long as a desirable object as one made from plain timber but with good design qualities, because with time the grain darkens and becomes less of a feature, whereas the design is a permanent visual fact "

Also having an understanding of what makes a design "good" is also a great incentive to try and achieve such, certainly knowing what is good and actually producing it are pretty much separated by several years of diligent practice!

 

[dickm]

But what is "good design"? To me, it means fitness for purpose, but if that purpose is purely to look decorative, then the only criterion of "good" is presumably whether or not the client (or if it's not a commission, a reasonable number of viewers) think it is good. Which seems a bit vague, yet we keep hearing claims that x, y or z is "a lovely design". It may be for the claimant, but might not be for me ...........