Inlaying silver / solder?

[gasman]

Happy New Year everyone. Very excited after my first Secret Santa participation - Pete Maddex made me a STUNNING dovetail chisel, marking knife and dovetail marker.

I have not made much recently due to work pressures apart from the odd Xmas pressie (and my SS offering obviously!). However I have just got a commission to make a gift for the retiring Master of a Cambridge College. It is a friend of a friend but needs to be done very well. The committee have seen the sort of things I have previously made on my website and they want me to make him a Butler's tray of some sort, but probably not the classic type with a fold-up oval tray - more like a detachable tray in which to put keys, phone etc for a gentlemen mounted on a stand of some sort. I am waiting for more details on the construction. However what they do definitely want is the College crest inlaid into the tray.... mmm tricky methinks as this is the original

So over this weekend I have been back doing my favourite pastime - inlaying - I decided to mock up the crest to see how it would look etc
And have so far come up with this:

.
There are a few mistakes such as the odd gap, not enough 'feathers' on the back, the eye is too big etc etc - which I will correct next time but I wanted to know about inlaying silver for the eye. Has anyone done this? I think solder might even do but the only success I have had so far was to drill a 1mm hole and force some solder wire into it then melt it in the hole - everything else I tried burnt the wood and it would not stay in the hole I had made
Another problem is that there is a scroll on the original crest. My crest I have done is 98 x 110 mm - at this size the lettering would be about 8mm high - which is too small for an inlay - what do people recommend here - I could carve it I suppose but a bit tricky and always looks a bit fiddly I think. I did think about getting a silver scroll made with the lettering already done
Opinions / advice warmly received as always.
Thanks and all the best for 2013
Mark

 

[andersonec]

Mark, Is that inlaid into solid wood and how thick is your inlay?

Have you considered marquetry? if you didn't want to do it yourself try this chap http://www.qjsmarquetry.co.uk/index.php his name is Quentin and is very helpful, he did me some fishing flies to go on top of a box, a couple with ordinary wood veneer and a couple with coloured veneer, see one on this page near the bottom http://www.qjsmarquetry.co.uk/inlays.php

You would need to inlay the finished item into some more veneer before glueing onto your tray but if it going to be a presentation piece then it must be worth considering.

If you think it may be the way to go, e-mail him and send him a picture of your crest, he will then discuss size etc with you before committing.


Andy

 

[gasman]

Hi Andy
Yes it is all solid wood - the burr oak outer back is about 4mm thick and the others 2 or 3 mm.
I am loathe to do it with veneering as you suggest as this is going to be a used tray and I am worried it would wear through. Also I actually really like using end grain for some bits which gives a very different appearance - eg the 8 roses around the crest are end grain sycamore which looks very interesting I think
I remember that fly box of yours - it was lovely - how much did he charge for that?
BW
Mark

 

[Harbo]

I cannot help with advice but your work is really impressive.

Rod

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Drill straight through the eye and epoxy a length of wire into the hole? No need to melt anything - even the softest silver solder melts at something like 650c you're guaranteed to burn the piece. If you use wire, you have no problem with it fitting the hole or falling out; it'd be easier to finish flat, as well. If you don't know any silversmiths PM me, I'll post you a bit. I think an engraved scroll is a wise move - it'd look good and save you a whole load of work.
Phil.

 

[andersonec]

Mark,

Seen some of your stuff too =D> =D> =D>
I presume then you are doing this with a scroll saw? doesn't the end grain tend to open and close? don't suppose it would when it is so small, glued down and encased all round....

It was 8 squids for the coloured fly, I don't think you would have any trouble with it wearing through, don't forget this will be glued down so it is infact another skin on top of your base timber so will be less prone to wear specially if it only cups and saucers, after fixing everything down I go over it with a half sheet electric sander and have not gone through yet (early days) the veneer is 0.6mm thick, doesn't sound much but it is quite sufficient. Don't forget also it will be in a tray and it will need some sort of waterproof finish so will be well protected.
I have since bought a little book 'marquetry course' and have had a go myself

Not as hard as it looks but it's the cost of the veneers for just one item which would be prohibitive if you were to do it yourself, these people do some coloured veneers but their delivery prices leave a lot to be desired http://www.originalmarquetry.co.uk/page1.htm

Andy

 

[andersonec]

Mark,
Just thought,
I saw some glitter in little pots in one of the shops selling decorations and thought maybe a pinch of this mixed with some epoxy would colour the eye, given enough glitter, it would be small enough not to glitter but it would be enough to colour the eye being such a small space.

Or drill your hole, pack with glitter then a drop of super glue.


Andy

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Just a thought - if you decide on an engraved silver scroll, find an engraver before you worry about the silver. It's easier to engrave a large piece, then cut off the bit you want. He's probably going to charge by time, so don't do anything to waste it. It doesn't make any difference to the end cost in silver.

 

[Lons]

Not as hard as it looks but it's the cost of the veneers for just one item which would be prohibitive if you were to do it yourself, these people do some coloured veneers but their delivery prices leave a lot to be desired http://www.originalmarquetry.co.uk/page1.htm Andy

As an aside to that and sounds a bit bizzare but when I used to do marquetry pictures many years ago I came across a coffin manufacturer at Beverley near Hull where we were living at the time and they had a large amount of scrap veneers. (I was trout fishing at the time and swapped a few fish for a sackfull of veneers :lol: ).

These were just what I wanted because they were the ones that were too heavily figured or discoloured for them to use on coffins. most were oak and elm but there were others. For marquetry puposes, any offcuts from furniture makers are useable as well.

I still have quite a lot of veneers and did actually buy some. The artificial coloured ones were I believe produced by injecting living trees with dyes at an early stage of the tree life and were therefore expensive. I have some almost rainbow colours though colouring methods may well have changed as it's 30 years since I bought.

Marquetry using the reverse window method is a doddle just using a scalpel and standard blades.

cheers
Bob

 

[gasman]

Thanks for all your comments and suggestions. So I measured the solder I have - 1.2 mm - so drilled a 1mm hole in the eye (I do not have a brad-point drill bit under 3mm - does anyone know where you can get those??) then stretched the solder until it broke and this then fitted into my hole - a tiny dab of CA glue and then cleaned the surface with a very sharp chisel - looks great I will take a photo
Cheers
Mark