Industrial unit for woodworking - ideal size?

[YorkshireMartin]

I'm thinking about 1,000sqft should do it, allowing a reasonable area for timber storage. Would I be about on the money?

Obviously, bigger is better, but to start with I need something thats affordable and where I don't rattle around when alone.

Could I perhaps go a bit smaller? Have to fit all the usual machines, small industrial sizes rather than giant Martins, etc.

Any advice appreciated, cheers.

 

[custard]

That sounds about right for bespoke furniture, I've got 80 square metres plus two lock up garages for timber storage.

If I leave enough space for glue ups and veneering (veneering is pretty greedy of space) plus typically having two or even three projects on the go at any one time, then I can't go the separates route and have to have a combination machine. Also I don't have the room for a spray booth.

There's no way I could efficiently make kitchens or larger built ins in that space. I could possibly accommodate one job, but real life isn't like that, there'd be times when client timings change, or the work can't be scheduled as smoothly as you'd like, so there would be multiple jobs on the go. The reason I mention it is because pure bespoke furniture making is a marginal economic activity at best. Almost all the furniture makers I know have to do something else as well to make it all viable; heritage joinery, kitchens, built ins, teaching, joinery packages, yacht fit outs, etc, etc. And therefore their work space has to adapt accordingly, and that almost always means more space than originally envisaged.

 

[YorkshireMartin]

That sounds about right for bespoke furniture, I've got 80 square metres plus two lock up garages for timber storage.

If I leave enough space for glue ups and veneering (veneering is pretty greedy of space) plus typically having two or even three projects on the go at any one time, then I can't go the separates route and have to have a combination machine. Also I don't have the room for a spray booth.

There's no way I could efficiently make kitchens or larger built ins in that space. I could possibly accommodate one job, but real life isn't like that, there'd be times when client timings change, or the work can't be scheduled as smoothly as you'd like, so there would be multiple jobs on the go. The reason I mention it is because pure bespoke furniture making is a marginal economic activity at best. Almost all the furniture makers I know have to do something else as well to make it all viable; heritage joinery, kitchens, built ins, teaching, joinery packages, yacht fit outs, etc, etc. And therefore their work space has to adapt accordingly, and that almost always means more space than originally envisaged.

Thanks dude.

It's going to be very lonely in 1,000sqft of space by myself. I think I'll build a stage and have some exotic dancers to brighten the place up a bit.

Theres a cheap lease thats come up locally, but on a good quality, albeit small, property. It's 300sqft but inclusive of all utilities. To start out, considering I'm working part-time on single projects, do you reckon I'd make it work. Exotic dancers might have to wait, but it has to be better than my current situation, where my machinery is stored remotely from where I have to work.

 

[custard]

I guess it depends on what you're making, I spent years working from a double garage which isn't that different to 300 square feet. I wasn't making commercially but I still turned out plenty of traditionally made hardwood furniture...just it tended to come out one piece at a time and at a fairly sedate pace!

As long as you work on projects consecutively, with timber bought in one job at a time, and don't go mad with the Axminster catalogue, then why not!

 

[Peter Sefton]

My first workshop was 800 sqft plus a small office, I had one apprentice and one or two guys working with me as required. I had a Wadkin surfacer, Startrite planer thichnesser, Dankart panel saw, a small Wadkin spindle, router table, pad sander and an oversized band saw. I took on an extra 600 sqft when I bought my veneer press and used the extra space for timber storage.

I am sure you should fit in well and have plenty of room to grow.

Cheers Peter

 

[No skills]

You'll need a good radio for 1000sqft.

 

[YorkshireMartin]

Thanks gents. I'm far from your calibre so I think I can get away with a smaller space as I doubt I'll be in enough demand as to have to make multiple pieces. My machines are small sedgwick units. Still need the space around them of course, but a large double garage would probably be enough to get me going. If it works and I can earn a crust of sorts, I'll be able to upgrade.

One ray of light though. The display unit I made, several people asked for my details and one couple commented they'd like it in their living room. So I must have done something right. Encouraging.

 

[YorkshireMartin]

You'll need a good radio for 1000sqft.

 

[MrTeroo]

You'll need a good radio for 1000sqft.

And if the PPL / PRS parasites ring just hang up...

 

[RobinBHM]

I started out with 600sqft, 30' × 20' a cowshed I had convert.

It worked ok for 1 person and sometimes had 2 or 3 people doing stuff.

The problem is stock and work in progress. I do recall though there an Americsn book, the workshop; one guy made kitchens in a really small space, so it can be done, with planning. As Custard says, if jobs have scheduling altered you can end up with multiple jobs on the go.

With cabinet work, all of the doors, frames, side cheeks, drawers, trims csn be made first and its possible to buy in pre cut sheet material for the carcasses. Machine lip these and assemble just before delivery.

If you know your maximum component length, that will help with machine layout. I have every machine positioned to allow a 5 metre part to be worked, which is necessary for joinery.

If this is your first workshop, I would go with low overheads first so you dont have a high break even point.

 

[YorkshireMartin]

You'll need a good radio for 1000sqft.

And if the PPL / PRS parasites ring just hang up...

I used to just put them on hold whilst I found the head of department for entertainment, my twin brother. It took a while to find him usually.

 

[No skills]

You'll need a good radio for 1000sqft.

:lol: :lol: :lol: I see your covered.

 

[MrTeroo]

I used to just put them on hold whilst I found the head of department for entertainment, my twin brother. It took a while to find him usually.

=D>

 

[YorkshireMartin]

I think I need to go and look at one. Im not used to working in square feet, so it's hard for me to grasp where my kit would go etc.

Think I'll start by measuring my parents double garage and go from there.

Thanks Robin good advice. 5 meter parts would be way above what i'd be doing. 2m as an absolute maximum I think but it does pay to consider flexibility for sure.

 

[YorkshireMartin]

I made a booboo. The unit I'm going to see is 550sqft not 300. So that works out nicely!

 

[Adam9453]

Shape of the space is another important factor, a square space is better than a long narrow one, even if both are the same square footage. It's also important to consider the size relative to business rates, there is a threshold above which you start paying a lot more than just below the threshold. I think the threshold is about 1200 square feet but technically it is actually dependant upon the rateable value.
Best way to make money in business is to avoid spending it :wink:

 

[YorkshireMartin]

Shape of the space is another important factor, a square space is better than a long narrow one, even if both are the same square footage. It's also important to consider the size relative to business rates, there is a threshold above which you start paying a lot more than just below the threshold. I think the threshold is about 1200 square feet but technically it is actually dependant upon the rateable value.
Best way to make money in business is to avoid spending it :wink:

That was your 666th post so I will tread carefully...

Absolutely. I'm told my business rates will be near zero if I stay under 6k rateable value. I do need to check this of course because that was the word of the property agent only.

These are all your common or garden industrial units, so rectangular. They were build in 2009, have roller shutters and a WC etc. Standard stuff.

 

[woodbrains]

Hello,

Just bear in mind, commercial property measurements are the space the unit occupies ( external dimensions) not the size of the floor area you see. 300 sq ft is a start, but I think you will outgrow it very quickly, so be prepared to move again soon! Of course if you just want to make chairs, or fine boxes, it might suit for the rest of your days. I had 506 sq ft (count 'em) and had my tablesaw in such a way that I could open the roller shutter to allow long boards to be cut and save a bit of space. It did get tight and I think 750 sq ft. would be an ideal minimum. For one man, heating the space, getting enough work to pay rent, pricing these overheads into the job undertaken etc. that size is an economical sweet spot. More space is desirable and if you are always busy, perhaps affordable. But as soon as work becomes light, it can become a real drain on funds. I would work out how much you need to turn over per day to pay your income, rent, bills, materials, etc. etc. and then decide how much work you can realistically achieve in that day. That is how much you have to charge the client for the thing you make. If the space you rent puts your daily rate higher than the customer will pay for the job , your workshop is too big! Rent is the overhead most easily changed to bring you into an economical viable situation, since the materials, your income, workshop running costs are fairly fixed.

Mike.

 

[RobinBHM]

550sqft is a nice size, certainly big enough, as long as its not 5'0 x 110' unless your a ropemaker...

Lots of ideas here....

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Workshop-Book- ... B005XXO12C


For organisation

https://www.amazon.co.uk/5S-Operators-P ... 1563271230

Avoid drawers, shelves and any horizontal surface!

 

[YorkshireMartin]

Avoid drawers, shelves and any horizontal surface!

Can you expand on that point please Robin?