I'm done with the For Sale section of the site

[ColeyS1]

Having just checked my emails I have been given some information that changes my perception of what occured with Bodgers.

Apparently he was given every opportunity, argued it, argued some more and then got the hump before the sales thread could be re-instated minus the "give me offers" post, which would have happened if he'd waited 10 minutes more.

So I'd like to publicly and openly, and unreservedly apologise to the mod(s) for grabbing the wrong end of the stick, and frantically waving it about yelling "look at this !"

or (as monty Python seems to fit so many things) : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8ukak8P2vY

Well this thread took a left turn didn't it?

I didn't check back in on it after I posted, and then this...

Just to reply to this post. I'm not sure 'given every opportunity' is fair.

Firstly, what happened was heavy handed. My initial post for the thread was fine. Someone then posted to ask for further details on postage. Nothing went further. So I added a post that clarified that it was still for sale and that someone should offer me a deal before I list it 'elsewhere'.

So two points:

1. In a lot of for sale threads people reply and state an offer. This is not an offence, and goes on all the time. It is a normal part of the process. My listing had a fixed price, in a follow up post I basically stated what goes on elsewhere without issue. High crime?

2. My statement to say that I would list it elsewhere was phrased in the future conditional sense. I had not currently listed it on an auction site. It was a statement of possible future intent, if I couldn't sell it here. So no rules were broken.

I was not given every opportunity.

The thread was removed without first giving me an opportunity to fix what was wrong.

When it was taken down I was told it was for a breach of the rules, and when I protested, a clarification was given that it was not for the comments about the auction site, it was for the offers comment - despite the fact the listing was still at a FIXED PRICE. I protested that by saying the above and that the rules needed to change as offers on the fixed price were part of the normal selling/buying process.

I heard nothing back, the listing wasn't reinstated, so I posted this thread.

Like I say, I'm done with the selling section, so this is all academic. The rules need a rethink to allow the normal buying/selling process to happen. Users of the site should be listened to. That is all.

What about rule 8.5 ? -"Furthermore members should not mention that their item/s will be listed for sale on such sites in the event that their items fail to sell here."

I might post forsale a used and abused no4 stanley for £750.....but I'm open to offers !! Lol

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[Phil Pascoe]

Surely it's academic? If I saw something expensive that I was interested in, I'd PM an offer whether or not the ad said the seller was open to offers. If you don't ask, you don't get.

 

[Lons]

What about rule 8.5 ? -"Furthermore members should not mention that their item/s will be listed for sale on such sites in the event that their items fail to sell here."

I fail to understand the need for that rule. OK lisiting elsewhere at the same time and promoting that but saying you would if it doesn't sell here - what's wrong with that? :?

However rules are rules and we agree to them when we join the forum so it's up to us to comply or not and face the consequences. I do hope the mods listen to members however and if there's enough weight of opinion maybe change terms that don't make sense. It's a shame to alienate members who have committed a minor infringement as in this case but otherwise contribute valuable help and information on the forum for the benefit of the rest of us.

Rules are like the small print on documents, we know we should read and digest them but I wonder how many of us actually do that. I'm not saying if that includes me #-o

Bob

 

[ColeyS1]

It creates a false sense of urgency. "if you don't buy it, you'll miss out and I'll stick it on ebay." It's unnecessary. If I want it I'll buy it, no pressure required.

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[Lons]

It creates a false sense of urgency. "if you don't buy it, you'll miss out and I'll stick it on ebay." It's unnecessary. If I want it I'll buy it, no pressure required.

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I see your point.

Would make absolutely no difference to me though or I think any sensible potential buyer so doubt that is important. If there's pressure it's there already because you have all these forum members who might nip in before you get a chance.

It's happened to me, have you not seen something of interest only to note someone's beaten you to it? #-o

cheers
Bob

 

[Droogs]

I have noticed many members will say that they will draw a name if they get several interested parties after the kit. I feel this is most fair and should i sell anything, I would like to think i would give all forum members a chance to see the ad and then after a reasonable time (say 3 days) draw lots and let lady luck see who gets it. Don't think anyone would consider that unfair.

 

[ColeyS1]

Does my mates girlfriend count ?


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[ColeyS1]

If anyone's interested in my £750 no 4 plane (or make me an offer wink wink) pm me with your bid....I mean offer and I'll see how many more offers I get. I'll leave it a few days and see who's bidded....I mean offered the most. Just to be polite I'll message the second highest bidder....offerer to see if they'd like to increase their offer. In no way will I allow it to turn into an auction/bidding war ha.
Keep it simple ain't it. Fixed price, no confusion or bidding wars. If you've got the money its yours, if not someone else will take it if the price is right.

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[CHJ]

A few points to regarding the rules.
Nobody wants them, no matter how they are worded a background hum ensues about the semantics of their wording, but without them Moderating becomes impossible. The only alternate is to do as many private Bloggs do, subject every post to editorial approval.

The For Sale board is a FREE service costs of which have to be covered by advertising revenue just the same as the rest of UKW.

Very few FEE Charging market places contribute to the costs of UKW server space, why would UKW want to advertise for them for free.

The 'Open to Offers', in effect an 'Auction to highest bidder' clause was put into place when the Market Place was instigated based of the number of times Moderators got embroiled in behind the scenes arguments associated with 'I saw it first' he 'Sold it to his mate instead' type PM's and e-mails that arose during the period when items were offered in open forum.

The Concurrent marketing clause, was because of similar behind the scenes (and occasionally public) arguments about first dibs and lack of courtesy in responding to members to say if an item had already been sold elsewhere that Mods had been expected to adjudicate on.

 

[timber]

A few points to regarding the rules.
Nobody wants them, no matter how they are worded a background hum ensues about the semantics of their wording, but without them Moderating becomes impossible. The only alternate is to do as many private Bloggs do, subject every post to editorial approval.

The For Sale board is a FREE service costs of which have to be covered by advertising revenue just the same as the rest of UKW.

Very few FEE Charging market places contribute to the costs of UKW server space, why would UKW want to advertise for them for free.

The 'Open to Offers', in effect an 'Auction to highest bidder' clause was put into place when the Market Place was instigated based of the number of times Moderators got embroiled in behind the scenes arguments associated with 'I saw it first' he 'Sold it to his mate instead' type PM's and e-mails that arose during the period when items were offered in open forum.

The Concurrent marketing clause, was because of similar behind the scenes (and occasionally public) arguments about first dibs and lack of courtesy in responding to members to say if an item had already been sold elsewhere that Mods had been expected to adjudicate on.

When I first joined I did have a problem, so sent emails to Charlie who I thought owns this site However never got any replies !! .. So who does own it, and who makes, or can change the rules and at the same time make it a little easier for us non PC experts to put pics in the for sale section??
If I want to sell something I put the price for it in, but if I put any offers down, then if anyone want to pay more so much the better.
However at the end of the day Life is full of problems. Who would be a mod??
Timber

 

[Bodgers]

Having just checked my emails I have been given some information that changes my perception of what occured with Bodgers.

Apparently he was given every opportunity, argued it, argued some more and then got the hump before the sales thread could be re-instated minus the "give me offers" post, which would have happened if he'd waited 10 minutes more.

So I'd like to publicly and openly, and unreservedly apologise to the mod(s) for grabbing the wrong end of the stick, and frantically waving it about yelling "look at this !"

or (as monty Python seems to fit so many things) : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8ukak8P2vY

Well this thread took a left turn didn't it?

I didn't check back in on it after I posted, and then this...

Just to reply to this post. I'm not sure 'given every opportunity' is fair.

Firstly, what happened was heavy handed. My initial post for the thread was fine. Someone then posted to ask for further details on postage. Nothing went further. So I added a post that clarified that it was still for sale and that someone should offer me a deal before I list it 'elsewhere'.

So two points:

1. In a lot of for sale threads people reply and state an offer. This is not an offence, and goes on all the time. It is a normal part of the process. My listing had a fixed price, in a follow up post I basically stated what goes on elsewhere without issue. High crime?

2. My statement to say that I would list it elsewhere was phrased in the future conditional sense. I had not currently listed it on an auction site. It was a statement of possible future intent, if I couldn't sell it here. So no rules were broken.

I was not given every opportunity.

The thread was removed without first giving me an opportunity to fix what was wrong.

When it was taken down I was told it was for a breach of the rules, and when I protested, a clarification was given that it was not for the comments about the auction site, it was for the offers comment - despite the fact the listing was still at a FIXED PRICE. I protested that by saying the above and that the rules needed to change as offers on the fixed price were part of the normal selling/buying process.

I heard nothing back, the listing wasn't reinstated, so I posted this thread.

Like I say, I'm done with the selling section, so this is all academic. The rules need a rethink to allow the normal buying/selling process to happen. Users of the site should be listened to. That is all.

What about rule 8.5 ? -"Furthermore members should not mention that their item/s will be listed for sale on such sites in the event that their items fail to sell here."

I might post forsale a used and abused no4 stanley for £750.....but I'm open to offers !! Lol

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That's what goes on though.

A fixed listing price appears. People offer.

What's wrong with stating the obvious to encourage people? False sense of urgency? Why not?

The rules are daft, and OTT.



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[ColeyS1]

Its against the rules which you agreed to when you signed up.
Pm me if you're interested in the plane. It's getting quite a bit of interest. Can't be bothered posting pictures. Highest 'offer' is is around £400 - could be yours for a few quid more wink wink nudge nudge. Not an auction, just helping you out. Lol

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[Lons]

Pm me if you're interested in the plane. It's getting quite a bit of interest. Can't be bothered posting pictures. Highest 'offer' is is around £400 - could be yours for a few quid more wink wink nudge nudge. Not an auction, just helping you out. Lol

I think that's a sad way to view things Coley even though I know what you mean. There are members on here who have given items for free or sold them for less than they could likely achieve on an auction site.
I've done so a couple of times as I would much rather they went to someone who would make proper use of and take care of them than just off the auction who might even be buying to sell on at a profit. I've also been the grateful recipient.

Maybe I'm naive but I certainly wouldn't dream of doing what you suggest and would like to think that the majority of members wouldn't either just as my opinion of Bodgers post is that it was genuine and a minor infringement. The sad person in this is the one who reported it to the mods who then had to take action, that person needs to get a life!

cheers
Bob

ps
Just as an aside, is it permissable to post a picture of an item and ask for opinions on it's value or is that seen as touting for a sale.
Genuine question, I have a number of old handsaws which I now realise I will never get around to restoring as well as several other items and absolutely no idea of worth. Some things are difficult to value via the web or ebay.

 

[Bodgers]

Its against the rules which you agreed to when you signed up.
Pm me if you're interested in the plane. It's getting quite a bit of interest. Can't be bothered posting pictures. Highest 'offer' is is around £400 - could be yours for a few quid more wink wink nudge nudge. Not an auction, just helping you out. Lol

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Nice.

I posted a picture.

It had a fixed price.

Never mentioned any PMs.

I followed up with an an encouragement to do what happens in pretty much EVERY SINGLE for sale thread.

If this is your smart guy attitude it pretty much illustrates nicely how the site is managed and the fact that the rules need to change. The users of the site should have a voice.

Sounds like you are the person that reported the post to begin with...which says it all really

 

[ColeyS1]

Abiding by the rules isn't that difficult though. Many others seem to do it just fine ! It's only those who think they're above them that seem to whinge and moan when they don't have their own way. I understand it benefits others but it's also a huge perk for the seller who gets a targeted audience with absolute zero fee's. Is it really too much to ask to just stick to a few basic rules to continue having the privilege.

If you want to use the forsale section, just stick to the rules. No point throwing your toys out the pram when you don't get your own way !!!

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[ColeyS1]

Sounds like you are the person that reported the post to begin with...which says it all really

Care to elaborate? Me no understand...


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[lurker]

We are not members here, we are guests.
We do what the owner and his bouncers tell us, or leave.
It costs us nothing to get the manifold benefits of this forum.
We therefore have no rights and are certainly not in a position to make demands on volunteers without whom this forum would not exist.
So it's no good getting at all indignant and protesting about what is fair.

This remains the best forum on the internet, lets get back to talking about woodwork and trying to wind up Jacob and BB

 

[Bodgers]

We are not members here, we are guests.
We do what the owner and his bouncers tell us, or leave.
It costs us nothing to get the manifold benefits of this forum.
We therefore have no rights and are certainly not in a position to make demands on volunteers without whom this forum would not exist.
So it's no good getting at all indignant and protesting about what is fair.

This remains the best forum on the internet, lets get back to talking about woodwork and trying to wind up Jacob and BB

And without any "guests" the site is worthless. It is in the interests of the site for "guests" to be listened to, otherwise the site doesn't exist.

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[Bodgers]

Abiding by the rules isn't that difficult though. Many others seem to do it just fine ! It's only those who think they're above them that seem to whinge and moan when they don't have their own way. I understand it benefits others but it's also a huge perk for the seller who gets a targeted audience with absolute zero fee's. Is it really too much to ask to just stick to a few basic rules to continue having the privilege.

If you want to use the forsale section, just stick to the rules. No point throwing your toys out the pram when you don't get your own way !!!

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As stated my listing in the thread post obided by the rules 100%.

A throw away follow up comment resulted in way over the top application of a rule that shouldn't exist and is frequently abused. My suggestion is that it shouldn't exist anyway.

Someone is suggesting that something should change - why not accept that?

 

[lurker]

Apparently I have been on this forum for over 10 years.
The rules have pretty much remained the same IIRC
So if it ain't broke.........

People come and people go, but the way this forum works continues.