I hate flat pack

[Dad]

[rantmode]

SWMBO insists on buying flat pack, which I then have to assemble (obviously). I just hate the method of construction with these & usually pull out the biscuit joiner & a pack of No 0 biscuits (+ a few dowels) & then assemble it 'my' way. Then there's the pieces that split/are bent etc. I usually either finish them off or remake them myself. Oh, & don't the manufactureres know that sandpaper does come finer than 80 grit? No, thought not.

At least she's got the message & started buying flat pack actually made from wood rather than chipb*ard. Oh, do I hate chipb*ard (I have a long term ambition to rid my house entirely of every last piece).

Latest is a 5 + 2 chest of drawers. Better than usual this one - only one piece needed remaking & half an hour with the sander & some 240 paper got it to a point where it could be finished. The drawer bottoms are way too thin though (about 3/32" mdf), so think they'll be getting replaced before too long.

I suppose I ought to make it all myself, but my production time is limited & output just isn't up to demand (good job I'm not on piecework).

[/rantmode]

 

[innesm]

I think well designed flatpack furniture is admirable in its simplicity of construction, and general economical pared-down-ness.
IKEA, king of the flatpack, deserves much respect for providing affordable, attractive furniture to the masses.
At the other end of the spectrums, there are woodworkers who will pull every technique out of the hat (fussy raised panels, etc), 'because they can', to meticulously make furniture which while beautifully made, I would regard as horribly dated and unattractive.
For example, I always find it ironic when somebody hand-builds a fitted kitchen which ends up looking nigh on identical to the naffest most dated Ye Olde effort from MFI.

Long live flatpack!

 

[Dad]

I think well designed flatpack furniture is admirable in its simplicity of construction, and general economical pared-down-ness.
IKEA, king of the flatpack, deserves much respect for providing affordable, attractive furniture to the masses.
At the other end of the spectrums, there are woodworkers who will pull every technique out of the hat (fussy raised panels, etc), 'because they can', to meticulously make furniture which while beautifully made, I would regard as horribly dated and unattractive.
For example, I always find it ironic when somebody hand-builds a fitted kitchen which ends up looking nigh on identical to the naffest most dated Ye Olde effort from MFI.

Long live flatpack!

Probably explains why we've got so much of it... :lol:

 

[woodbloke]

I can sympathize with this, though is there a difference between 'knock down' and 'flat pack'? An element of knock-down ability in a piece is very often desirable (double bed frames being the best example) though most of 'flat-pack' is fit for nothing more than the top of a bonfire on Nov 5th - Rob

 

[PowerTool]

At work,we have an office in Gothenburg,and one in Oslo - both are full of Ikea furniture.

However,it appears that in Sweden you get all the pieces and screws to assemble it.. :lol: (In Norway,you still have to go back when it's nearly finished and you realise there are some bits missing :shock: )

Andrew

 

[mailee]

Got to agree with Woodbloke about Ikea furniture. So far everything I have seen of it is naff. Give me a nice piece of traditional furniture any day. As for the kitchens hand built to the same looks as B&Q I should imagine they are better built and you also have the satisfaction of knowing you did it all yourself. If everyone bought flatpack we would be out of a job gentlemen. :wink:

 

[kafkaian]

Got to agree with Woodbloke about Ikea furniture. So far everything I have seen of it is naff. Give me a nice piece of traditional furniture any day. As for the kitchens hand built to the same looks as B&Q I should imagine they are better built and you also have the satisfaction of knowing you did it all yourself. If everyone bought flatpack we would be out of a job gentlemen. :wink:

I made the mistake of buying an IKEA kitchen and had to be compensated for the fact that doors were not assembled properly and started to pull away at the joints.

The reason for purchase; time was of the essence and I couldn't get a decent timber supplier in Brum to help with the doors - I didn't want unseasoned pine after all. :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Since then Davies's in Wythall (near Birmingham) supply decent Ash and Walnut.....

NEVER AGAIN :x The moral? The time you think you're saving with rubbish from Ikea is lost in complaints, poor workmanship and road trips taking hours. Getting to Junction 9 on the M6 is disembowling at the best of times!

 

[Anonymous]

I guess its down to horses for courses.

If I wanted new furniture for the master bedroom, I'd build it myself or budget permitting, hire a guy to do it for me.

For one of the kids' rooms or spare room, however, I'd buy decent flat pack furniture and assemble it properly at less than the cost of buying the materials to make it myself.

 

[kafkaian]

For one of the kids' rooms or spare room, however, I'd buy decent flat pack furniture and assemble it properly at less than the cost of buying the materials to make it myself.

I don't think there's any other way to assemble flat packs other than "properly"! The problem is; that "properly" will always have its achilles heel, whether that be poor fixing methods, low grade materials or just poor design per se. With "part A goes into Part B" visual instructions or otherwise, I assume "properly" means the tightness of screws/bolts/fixings or ensuring the backing is afixed to cabinets/wardrobes etc etc?????

 

[Anonymous]

OK then.

'Properly' means throwing away the wardrobe back which comes in the box in two pieces with a plastic joining strip and replacing it with a full piece of board cut to size, thereby improving stability by at least 500%.

'Properly' means augmenting crappy fixings with biscuits and glue wherever your experience as a woodworker deems them necessary.

'Properly' means taking a few clamps home with you to pull everything together while the glue sets.

'Properly' means making sure everything is level and square.

There's nothing intrinsically wrong with furniture made out of melamine faced chipboard - the best of it beats the hell out of a lot of solid pine furniture I've seen over the years.

It all comes down to cost. If you can afford better - buy better. If you can only afford flat-pack (like most people) buy it and make the best of it as above.

Just don't ever try and move it!! :lol:

 

[tiler99]

Absolutely Hiltsy.

 

[kafkaian]

OK then.

'Properly' means throwing away the wardrobe back which comes in the box in two pieces with a plastic joining strip and replacing it with a full piece of board cut to size, thereby improving stability by at least 500%.

'Properly' means augmenting crappy fixings with biscuits and glue wherever your experience as a woodworker deems them necessary.

'Properly' means taking a few clamps home with you to pull everything together while the glue sets.

'Properly' means making sure everything is level and square.

There's nothing intrinsically wrong with furniture made out of melamine faced chipboard - the best of it beats the hell out of a lot of solid pine furniture I've seen over the years.

It all comes down to cost. If you can afford better - buy better. If you can only afford flat-pack (like most people) buy it and make the best of it as above.

Just don't ever try and move it!! :lol:

Well in that case the principle of flat pack is lost and the purchase of seems pointless. I wouldn't want to spend hours 'making good' something that dissatisfied me in the first instance. I think for those who can't afford a router, some basic woodworking equipment and a little time converting some mdf, wood or otherwise are, in the main, fairly disinclined to worry about 'making good'. I understand your point, but the notion of converting any of my IKEA crud fills me with dread!

 

[woodbloke]

Never been to Ikea...worth a trip or no? Closest we've got in Salisbury is the dreaded MFI of yore (but that's closed now) - Rob

 

[bugbear]

Well in that case the principle of flat pack is lost and the purchase of seems pointless. I wouldn't want to spend hours 'making good' something that dissatisfied me in the first instance. I think for those who can't afford a router, some basic woodworking equipment and a little time converting some mdf, wood or otherwise are, in the main, fairly disinclined to worry about 'making good'. I understand your point, but the notion of converting any of my IKEA crud fills me with dread!

Well, in some cases IKEA furniture is cheaper than the equivalent materials, which is remarkable...

A little time spent "tweaking" can be well repaid.

I nothing else, using your own decent tools, as opposed to the "everythings's supplied including an allen key made of baked camenbert" stuff is also a good idea.

(oh, and "amen" to the comment on over-built, over-decorated home made furniture - it's a trap I'm aware of, and consciously fight. It's so tempting to use 1" oak all the time, just because you can, and just because manufacturers don't)

BugBear

 

[Paul Chapman]

Never been to Ikea...worth a trip or no?

Well worth a trip, Rob. But go with an open mind. In my view some of their stuff is brilliant - and equally brilliant is some of the thinking that must have gone into the processes for making the stuff in a way that any silly person can put together. Many are too eager to knock IKEA in my view. It's a concept that has enabled many to have nice-looking furniture at a very low price. Even got some myself :-$ but willing to accept its limitations.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[kafkaian]

In my view some of their stuff is brilliant - and equally brilliant is some of the thinking that must have gone into the processes for making the stuff in a way that any silly person can put together. Many are too eager to knock IKEA in my view. It's a concept that has enabled many to have nice-looking furniture at a very low price. Even got some myself :-$ but willing to accept its limitations.

I agree, there are some excellent designs and applied theories, but as someone who has bought into the Ikea experience myself, the trash is all too commonplace. I don't expect beech cupboard doors to bulge/move/heave/separate at the joints just because of the moisture or otherwise in and around a kitchen - and it wasn't just the one door, it was others and even when replaced suffered the same fate. As for the hinge positions, for one cupboard this was wildly out of sync (height-wise) and I had to replace an entire section before it was right.

Nah. Not for me. Not a fan, but I understand the consensus

 

[Anonymous]

Well in that case the principle of flat pack is lost and the purchase of seems pointless. I wouldn't want to spend hours 'making good' something that dissatisfied me in the first instance. I think for those who can't afford a router, some basic woodworking equipment and a little time converting some mdf, wood or otherwise are, in the main, fairly disinclined to worry about 'making good'. I understand your point, but the notion of converting any of my IKEA crud fills me with dread!

The point I and a couple of others have been making is that you can buy flat-pack furniture for less than the cost of the materials; it therefore makes sense to buy it and adapt it - at least some of the work is then done for you.

MFC is generally acknowledged to be the ideal material for kitchen carcasses, but if I was treating SWMBO to a new kitchen I wouldn't build my own carcasses when I can buy perfectly good flat-pack ones for less! I would instead devote my energies to making doors and possibly even face-frames to fit the bought-in carcasses. Indeed, this is exactly what most kitchen companies do.

I suppose though, that logically the next question is 'Why bother making doors when you can buy them for less than the cost of the wood?'

True, but then this is a woodworkers' forum...

 

[engineer one]

i think the biggest problem with IKEA stuff is it does not fit where you want.

since they have to make standard sizes to get economies of scale, you end up not being able to fill the alcove or whatever you have, but as a stop gap and figuring out what you actually want, and giving yourself time to understand the problems, it is a starting point.

but it is really sad that the units generally cost less than the equivalent wood that we would have to buy :?

kind of makes us consider what we offer to clients. :roll: :twisted: :lol:

cause the other thing is no one seems to leave the store without at least buying a coffee, and it is a cheap place to get a cooked lunch :lol:
paul :wink:

 

[Paul Chapman]

since they have to make standard sizes to get economies of scale, you end up not being able to fill the alcove or whatever you have

In my experience, most other European countries seem to have far more standardised size (and bigger) rooms in houses, whereas we seem to have a real hotch potch of sizes (and they are rapidly getting smaller).

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[engineer one]

paul, that is certainly true, and of course there are all the stories about people buying furniture from stores that cannot be moved into rooms, because the doors are often narrow, and they won't go up the stairs etc.

i seem to remember that in amsterdam they at least have sky hooks to allow you to lift the stuff into the higher rooms. :twisted:

when you walk around dfs for instance, you wonder whether the designers have ever looked at a standard english living room :?

at least two of the newer homes i have looked at recently did not allow you to close the bathroom door when using the wc. don't these people think about real people??? :roll:

english homes do i know make life difficult, but does give you the opportunity to make something better i guess :lol:

paul :wink: