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HSS Fluted Bar

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Aden30mm

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With the ever increasing cost of woodturning gouges, is it possible to purchase 3/8 and 1/2 inch fluted HSS bar.

If so does anyone have a contact for a supplier.

Regards

Aden
 

chipmunk

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Hi Aden,
Sadly not to my knowledge and even if you could it'd not be as strong as a gouge even if it were available.

The cheapest way is to buy an un-handled gouges and there's no real alternative to that because each individual HSS tool blank has to have the flute ground in it.

HTH
Jon
 

RogerP

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M2 HSS steel round bar (readily available in a variety of sizes) can be heat treated and fluted by someone with the ability and a milling machine but I don't think it would be worth the effort. I'd do as Jon suggests and buy un-handled ones.
 

woodpig

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I don't think you'd be able to mill a groove in HSS, I think it needs to be ground.
 

RogerP

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M2 HIGH-SPEED STEEL HEAT TREATMENT
Soft-annealing 850°C – 900°C / 1560°F – 1650°F, slow cooling 10°C / 18°F/h to 700°C / 1290°F
Stress relieving 600°C  – 700°C / 1120°F – 1290°F, approx. 2 hours at temperature, slow cooling to 500°C / 930°F.
Hardening with preheating in two steps 450°C – 500°C / 840°F – 930°F, 
850°C – 900°C / 1560°F – 1650°F and austenitizing at 1050°C – 1220°C / 1920°F – 2230°F. 
Quenching to about 550°C / 1022°F then air cooling down to room temperature.
2 temperings at 560°C / 1040°F are recommended (maintaining at least one hour each at temperature).

Simples :)
 

Harry 48

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I wonder why the 3/8 bowl gouge is 8.44 more than the 1/2 or 1/4 inch perhaps its the most popular :evil:
 

Aden30mm

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Thanks for the feedback, I'll just bite the bullet and buy an unhandled gouge. Just a tight old git.

One saving I have just made is by buying a 1" steb 2MT drive (not Sorby), from Amazon USA, delivered it cost £16 and a few pennies. I did not have to pay any import charges and it was delivered within a week. Don't know how it compares with the Sorby, but it works well enough for me.

Again thanks for the info, its appreciated

Kind regards

Aden
 

chipmunk

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Hi Aden,
I can tell you aren't aware but the Steb centres are covered by a Sorby owned patent in the UK http://patent.ipexl.com/GB/2286138-a.html.

FWIW it is actually illegal to import knock-offs into the UK until the patent expires - even for personal use. I know it's crazy but you could in theory be sued for damages by Sorby.

The patent only covers the UK and so that's why the cheap copies are available everywhere else (even in Europe) but cannot legally be sold here.

The good news is that I think that the patent only has a few months to run (I think it will expire in February 2015). After which time we'll hopefully get other companies importing the knock-offs into the UK. Also I am hopeful Sorby will be encouraged to lower their prices to UK customers at this time.

HTH
Jon
 

Aden30mm

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Thanks Chipmunk I wasn't aware of the patient , it will go to a turning friend in Spain for a Crimble pressey.

I can wait until Feb.
 

woodfarmer

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woodpig":2hf8pszo said:
I don't think you'd be able to mill a groove in HSS, I think it needs to be ground.
They can be milled, peter childs gouges are.

What I would like is to find someone who can mill hss gouge and make one like his angletip superflutes, sadly no longer available.
 

J-G

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woodfarmer":172pacee said:
woodpig":172pacee said:
I don't think you'd be able to mill a groove in HSS, I think it needs to be ground.
They can be milled, peter childs gouges are.

What I would like is to find someone who can mill hss gouge and make one like his angletip superflutes, sadly no longer available.
Whilst I agree that HSS can be milled, that would only be from its 'soft' state and, as RogerP has pointed out, hardening HSS is - - - 'simples'! :)
 

woodfarmer

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YewTube":35yxlnig said:
woodfarmer":35yxlnig said:
What I would like is to find someone who can mill hss gouge and make one like his angletip superflutes, sadly no longer available.
Henry Taylor makes a Superflute based on the Peter Child original. See http://www.henrytaylortools.co.uk/chisels.html#gouges

Bill
I have one. It is a travesty of the original. They have no understanding of how it should work and grind them wrongly. I did email them to ask if I could have blank before they ground them but they ignored my email. The core thing is the upturned inside of the base of the flute can cut well with a high angled small bevel say 75 degrees, With a second clearance grind of about 45 degrees. They grind the whole thing as a single facet which means you have to grind off most of the all important inner curve before you can use it thus destroying the entire "raison d' etre" of the tool

P1020030small.JPG
 

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RogerP

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I'm missing something. I have one by Henry Taylor and it's always worked fine.
 

woodfarmer

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phil.p":3lcizjyx said:
I wish I could see what you mean, but I can't.

Take a look here http://www.peterchild.co.uk/tools/bowlg/anbg.htm

notice on the diagram that the grind has two facets. a small one for cutting and bevel to ride on and the larger one is just for clearance.

The ones they sell now just have the clearance facet all the way to the edge. so you cant ride the bevel at a high angle for cleaning out the bottom of deep bowls unless you grind the front, thereby removing most of that special bit of curved flute.
 

Phil Pascoe

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I see - but doesn't that make it a very expensive tool? Once you got past the first 15mm - 20mm or so it's a bog standard gouge?
 

woodfarmer

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phil.p":3r1kt6nb said:
I see - but doesn't that make it a very expensive tool? Once you got past the first 15mm - 20mm or so it's a bog standard gouge?
Yes, which is why I was so ( not my choice of word :) -- "Annoyed" ) to discover Henry taylor and Co had ground the important bit wrong. pretty much destroyed the working life of the special bit at the factory :(
 

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