HSE moan

[doctor Bob]

Had a surprise visit by HSE. Not an issue, however I did feel obliged to tell him that we were checked out 3 years ago with no issues, however the employers in the other units who stood at their entrances and told him to F off had still not been inspected.
Anyway I digress, he asked me to have my £15000 extraction system tested, I did point out that the system was about 5 times the size we really needed and surely it would be better to tell the guy in the unit who told you to F off last time that he really should have an extraction system.
Anyway had the test, the great news is that for £500 someone can now tell me that my extraction system is 3 times more powerful than necessary.

He also told me that everyone in the unit should be wearing airfed masks in the sprayshop, because of Isocyanates even though we kept telling him that AC paint has no isocyanates, it's one thing to inspect but inspecting without knowing your facts is very unprofessional, he has now backed down on that one.

Before he left, I suggested he visit the other units, as surely now someone had told them how bad the safety was it was his duty to inspect. He assured me he would, I told him he wouldn't, guess what .............

Honestly it boils my water that because we are willing to be checked out we are constantly inspected, where as the employer who tells them to F*!k right off has never been inspected.

To top it all off I also have to pay for the privilage of being inspected, it's all a numbers game and they want an easy life, all complete and utter bullshit. Lets have a level playing field and get rid of the unsafe employers rather than letting them get away with it because they are intimidating.

 

[Markvk]

Make it level by telling him to f@#* off

 

[jimmy_s]

Here in Central Scotland from what I have heard they are looking to find anything wrong when they carry out an inspection so they can charge for their visit.

One of the building sites I was on the site agent was complaining because the inspector had been round and couldn't find anything wrong on the site but then discovered to his delight that the microwave in the site hut wasn't working - so he managed to charge for his visit as the site had "inadequate mess facilities" or something like that.

 

[lurker]

Bob,

LEV (your extraction system) legally needs inspection & test every 14 months max. so he was right.
Suggest you set up a regular check......... it could be cheaper that way

Telling a HSE inspector to f off is a criminal offence, believe it or not they have stronger powers of access than a police officer. I'm amazed he backed off if he really was HSE.

The other points are a worry as he appears to lack competence.
Did you ask to see his warrant?
He was HSE rather than council wasnt he?
Folks like this are what give H&S a bad name.

You don't have to pay if you feel his advice was poor
This is called a fee for intervention, thank the current government for that, previously all HSE advice was given willingly in the spirit of making people's lives safer

Jimmy,
You should have complained to his bosses.

Unfortunately HSE like all government bodies have cut back so all the good HSE guys have left, leaving behind the dregs.

 

[Stuart]

Bob
I also find it hard to believe you had a visit from a real HSE Inspector and I also would ask did you see his Warrent card? Since the government cuts to the HSE funding many of the best inspectors have left as they were highly trained and HS consaltancy firms snapped them up and new staff hse have yet to gain the knowledge and experience.
Stopping an inspector doing his job is a criminal offence and I advise any one on this forum not to refuse access to a genuine inspector, they have a Royal Wrrent card which they will show you, the same as a police officer, custom officer, court enforcement officer, and hindering them in the execution of their duties can end with them calling the police and asking them to arrest you which they will do

 

[doctor Bob]

Of course he was real. However the other guys told the last one to F off not this one, I thought it might spur this one on to inspect them, it hasn't.

 

[yorkshirepudding]

I recall some years ago we had a similar situation with MOT inspectors. When I pointed out that the MOT station down the road was a s**t hole and asked why they were never inspected he had the gall to tell me that if they were to inspect him they'd have to close him down. He went on to tell me that we obviously had the resources to meet his demands.
On one occasion the inspector told me he didn't like the quality of paint on the safety rail in the viewing area. As if that would make the rail less safe.

 

[HappyHacker]

Not just H&S I am afraid it is almost any official. They pick on the easy cases as the hard ones take up to much time and they can't reach their targets. A friend who is a small holder had an inspection by DEFRA regarding his records. He was asked for a map of the water courses on his land. He replied that there no water courses on his land so he had no map. The inspector said he needed a map, to which my friend replied how he was supposed to draw no watercourses on a map. The inspector fined him anyway. When leaving my friend asked the inspector what sort of background he had for the job, the inspector replied he had been a H&S manager.

A friend who has a sandwich shop was inspected a few minutes after she had unlocked the shop in the morning. She lost one star on her rating because as she had walked in she had put the rolls she was carrying on a chair near the door to the toilet (it is a very very small shop) so she could move stuff to put them in their proper place. The inspector said that the rolls were not stored properly, no excuses.

 

[No skills]

As with most things in life, if you are friendly - cooperative and law abiding you get cabbage over.

 

[novocaine]

As with most things in life, if you are friendly - cooperative and law abiding you get cabbage over.

think I'd go with, As with most things in life, you get the good ones and the bad ones, but the good ones rarely get a mention.

 

[wolfey]

In 15 yrs we have had the pleasure of the HSE 3 times as far as I can remember, the first time the lady was more interested in what we was making and how it was made, all she said was keep the place tidy please! we clear down and all waste removed every night before we close anyway as forms part of our insurance cover..

The second time they wanted to shut us down for no guard on a pillar drill !!! we disconnected it and put it in a container storage..

A few years ago HSE visited and told us we needed another fire escape door due to changing the layout in our machine shop, I was dubious to weather this was actually his department as he had nothing really to back it up with. We had recently had a letter from our local fire station offering local businesses free fire extinguisher checks/tests as some new service thing so we contacted them (having 30+ of them last count) They turned up in a fire truck which was great fun and was a real great bunch of guy's.
We ask them if they had any knowledge regarding the hse guy saying we must install this fire escape door in 28days or be shut down...... Less than 24hrs later the fire officer sent a full 6 page evaluation and risk assessment of our warehouse and a signed document that our fire escapes were sufficient!!!! FREE OF CHARGE!!!!

We were so blown away by the service and amount of advice they gave we donated £1000.00 to the local fire service! (about the cost of cutting a whole in the wall and fitting a steel door)

If your local fire service offers this service I recommend it plus it looks great on you insurance.

Best

Wolfey

 

[Rorschach]

We used to have the local fire department come to my shop (retail), they would do some checks for all the small businesses around, then they would spend a few hours handing out leaflets for free fire alarm fittings etc. Always a crowd pleaser since they turn up with the truck and everything and all the ladies swoon. One of my staff took up their offer of a free alarm, when they turned up to fit it again the whole truck arrived, one bloke fitted it while she "entertained" the other young men, all her neighbours "popped round" to say hello and they all got an alarm too, so quite a good idea really.
Someone old fart did moan once that they were taking up space in the car park with their truck and why did they need it, they were just about to explain when they got the call to an emergency and dropped all their leaflets and stuff and were gone in a flash. I think he got the message! haha.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

We used to have a door that the H&S people used to tell us to remove (as it was supposedly dangerous) ... a few weeks later we'd have a fire inspection and they'd make us put it back. Until the next time ...

 

[Phil Pascoe]

We used to have legendary outdoor parties through 1975 and 1976, sometimes two or three day events with a huge bonfire that would burn for four or five days. We used to make sure we had plenty of water available, plan everything well (this being Cornwall in a drought) and ring the fire brigade and tell them what we were doing and give them the map reference. At two or three o'clock in the morning the engine would turn up - I always wondered why as there was never any problem. It cost us two or three gallons of draught Bass every time.

 

[Togalosh]

It's the same in the catering industry.. those who comply with the Environmental Health Officer will get more stringent demands made of them about date labelling & temperature record keeping etc.. but the f&^%r down the road who has poorly & dangerously cobbled together a gas chargrill, has had his gas supply & equipment put in by the same bloke who badly plastered his walls, who is storing & chopping lettuce in a manky shed & craps outside the backdoor of his take-away doesn't get a visit because he is a really difficult & evasive so n so.

Bon Appatit.

 

[stuartpaul]

Had a surprise visit by HSE. Not an issue, however I did feel obliged to tell him that we were checked out 3 years ago with no issues, however the employers in the other units who stood at their entrances and told him to F off had still not been inspected.
Anyway I digress, he asked me to have my £15000 extraction system tested, I did point out that the system was about 5 times the size we really needed and surely it would be better to tell the guy in the unit who told you to F off last time that he really should have an extraction system.
Anyway had the test, the great news is that for £500 someone can now tell me that my extraction system is 3 times more powerful than necessary.

He also told me that everyone in the unit should be wearing airfed masks in the sprayshop, because of Isocyanates even though we kept telling him that AC paint has no isocyanates, it's one thing to inspect but inspecting without knowing your facts is very unprofessional, he has now backed down on that one.

Before he left, I suggested he visit the other units, as surely now someone had told them how bad the safety was it was his duty to inspect. He assured me he would, I told him he wouldn't, guess what .............

Honestly it boils my water that because we are willing to be checked out we are constantly inspected, where as the employer who tells them to F*!k right off has never been inspected.

To top it all off I also have to pay for the privilage of being inspected, it's all a numbers game and they want an easy life, all complete and utter baloney. Lets have a level playing field and get rid of the unsafe employers rather than letting them get away with it because they are intimidating.

And apart from having a moan on here have you taken it any further with the individual inspector of their line manager? Because if you don't all that will happen is several pages on here of 'I remember when ....' (starting already) and you'll be able to,start another post in a similar vein when they visit again in a few years time.

Whereas if you do take it further there is the possibility of affecting change and making your point effectively.

I'm incredibly surprised that an f*** off response to an inspector hasn't resulted in further action. A really significant reason for you to take formal action to ensure your point is made.

 

[Jelly]

Not just H&S I am afraid it is almost any official.

I variously do/have done work for the Waste, Chemicals, Oil & Gas, and Logistics sectors... Meaning I get to work with HSE, VOSA/DVSA, Environment Agency, SEPA, NRW, DEFRA, APHA, OGA, MCA & ECHA


Of all the regulators APHA, HSE, MCA and VOSA/DVSA are the fairest, most consistent and most helpful (not withstanding the fact that a technical query to the HSE regarding a vague or inconsistent clause in legislation can take months to come back).


The OGA & ECHA are generally actively trying to help operators comply and remain legal, but will come down like a Tonne of bricks when they do intercede. I suspect this is largely because they regulate industries made up of a small number of huge companies who stand to loose phenomenal sums of money if they don't comply


The Environment Agency are extraordinarily inconsistent, my local officer is helpful, knowledgeable and fair... A friend of mine deals with another Local Officer who is very zealous, who will press the letter of the law on minor administrative points even when it's unlikely to make a material impact on Environmental Protection.

Inspections do seem to occur much more frequently on well managed sites, whilst the cowboy operations seem to survive unmolested, it's widely thought in industry this is down to decades of funding cuts, and the push to make the regulatory arm self-funding. A friend who was a senior inspector for Her Majesties Inspectorate of Pollution and then the early EA untill they culled staff in the 2000's after the implementation of the IPPC regs was completed, seems to corroborate that feeling

SEPA, are widely viewed as being overstretched and excessively permissive to the point of Scottish operators having a material advantage... They are dead helpful if you need to speak to them though.


One thing I have noticed over time is that when people are moaning about the recording of minor noncompliances during inspections, is that usually the inspector was correct, even if they were rather harsh.
By contrast, when inspectors are wrong people are normally ready to go to court (and I've known of two people who went to court in those circumstances and won decisively).

 

[doctor Bob]

UN pineapple**NG BELIEVABLE.................... I made one phone call to moan about the costs and today received an invoice for £51 pounds for their 5 minutes on the phone. They are truely a bunch of c*nts, who really know how to upset the punters which bend over backwards for them, next time they can f*ck! right off.

 

[lurker]

http://www.hse.gov.uk/fee-for-intervent ... sputes.pdf

specifically para 8

 

[whiskywill]

specifically para 8

But what about para 11?