How would you rate the UK's handling of this pandemic?

[Misterdog]

You obviously find Diane Abbott very exciting!
In fact she's a very clever and highly qualified woman. She made one clumsy mistake years ago on a TV prog, just like hundreds of other MPs have done over the years, not to mention Johnson himself.
It's kept Sun readers in a frenzy of excitement ever since, poor things!

Sounds like you are a big fan.

 

[doctor Bob]

Just the one mistake ...................... your maths is as bad as hers.
She won't feature in any labour plans for a while now unless there is an uprising in the party lead by Jacob the great.

 

[D_W]

Fox hunting.
Tax evasion.

Two sets of laws which are often "stretched" - in the sense that the boundaries of the written text are considered to be somthing to be worked around, rather than to be followed "in spirit"

Perhaps you may want to consider that law written rigidly often tangles people who weren't breaking it in spirit in the first place. I know that doesn't fit in the whole conspiracy theory thing where the rich just want to use you as a subject to make themselves richer.

In the states, the theories bandied about like this are often promoted by people who don't actually do anything productive, just as the folks who do the most complaining about the rich paying more taxes often receive a credit each year rather than paying taxes (because their income is so low that accumulated tax credits end up providing them with refunds greater than they paid in).

I find this a little bit odd, but as a matter of understanding human nature and the near complete inability for anyone to attempt to justify the counter to their opinion - not that satisfying.

Or to be more clear, one of the things that makes me a political independent is the fact that I can usually come up for a rational argument, reason or ethic for someone who favors the opposite of my opinion. Rather than just accuse them of misdeeds. That's naive and juvenile.

 

[Jacob]

Just the one mistake ...................... your maths is as bad as hers.
She won't feature in any labour plans for a while now unless there is an uprising in the party lead by Jacob the great.

One interview Labour's Diane Abbott was asked to resign over interview blunder

 

[D_W]

Just the one mistake ...................... your maths is as bad as hers.
She won't feature in any labour plans for a while now unless there is an uprising in the party lead by Jacob the great.

I know fairly little about UK politics, but when we heard Corbyn was in by some set of circumstances, most of us here who are a bit more pragmatic pictured the same thing we do with sanders - easy time being a critic from the outside. Complete inability to do anything once you're on the hook. Is that the way it went with corbyn? That's usually followed by consipiracy theories explaining away incompetence once the critic is out of power.

This is a lot like the pro wrestling angle where a heel stirs the pot and creates a bunch of tension, loses a match, and then the next time they cut a promo, they scream "I didn't lose a match, you're lying".

Denial of reality - even when it's scripted.

I'll admit, I don't know what actually happened with corbyn, just that idealists can only exist in most cases when they're marketing something (their brand of criticism) vs. doing something that could be subject to others' criticism.

 

[D_W]

One interview Labour's Diane Abbott was asked to resign over interview blunder

It's interesting just how closely this narrative (knowing nothing about who this person is) fits what I said about corbyn. Do something stupid, blame someone (or something else).

Apparently, it took an investigation with the brother to find out that the more likely scenario (she had no clue what her proposal would cost, didn't care, and isn't capable of providing a reasonable estimate on the spot) wasn't true.

But coming back later with an excuse (after considering all possible ideas and then picking one based on how it would sound) will generally satisfy the fans and squash the critics ("I can't believe you'd criticize her over something that happened due to her Type 2 diabetes....you're just vindictive!!!").

 

[andy hamilton]

It gets caught be visiting other houses.

I am following the data and the data showed that covid "secure" places like pubs and restaurants were responsible for less than 3% of transmission. The more you stop people meeting in "safe" places the more they meet in their homes. It's not rocket surgery you know.

How does it get into houses in the first place? Without knowing what percentage of the population visited pubs and restaurants in the brief period they were open, your 3% figure is misleading. You could argue that jumping off cliffs accounts for less than 0.5% of UK deaths, but it would be misleading to conclude that it's a safe thing to do

 

[Jake]

On another forum I'm on the site owner claims that Putin is a Fascist ( the Putin who worked for the KGB for 18 years.)

The site owner is right, what on earth else do you think Putin is?

 

[gregmcateer]

Singapore did it very well, but the whole country is about the size of Manchester and has no land borders.

And if you even look at a stick of chewing gum they'll cut yer nuts off

 

[Spectric]

You obviously find Diane Abbott very exciting, you mention her quite often.
She made one clumsy mistake years ago on a TV prog, just like hundreds of other MPs have done over the years, not to mention Johnson himself.
It's kept Sun readers in a frenzy of excitement ever since, poor things!
In fact she's a very clever and highly qualified woman with a very successful career as an MP and highly rated by her constituents.
Wouldn't you fancy having Liz Truss under your desk, or Gavin Williamson perhaps? Freshen up your fantasies?

It is no good being all that if you come across as incompetant and way out of your depth but it is unfortunate that todays MPs all seem to have various issues, maybe just that today with all the technology they can nolonger hide it but I have absolutely no faith or confidence in any politician of today and something needs to change. The last politician I had any admiration for was Blair, life during his terms was good but we needed that having suffered from thatcher, who single handedly did more destruction to the UK than the Luftwaffe. Then Labour thought we have had the best so lets compete with the torries for the worst and along came Corbyn straight out of the history books and completly out of touch with reality, and that was the end of Labour for me like it was for so many others and I can fully understand why the younger generations no longer take interest in politics and won't until a major shake up. One minute they claim to want to be carbon free, next minute agree to a new coal mine. Talk about protecting the enviroment and then lets give the developers the power to cover it with housing sounds like one u turn after another. If I was the PM all project decisions would be based on one simple criteria, they have to deliver the most benefit to the most people and not just support a few who are going to financially gain. HS2 will create the Northern powerhouse, no the Victorians created the northern powerhouse that fueled the industrial revolution and since then consecutive governments have just laid waste to it. HS2 will just increase the catchment area for people to work in London and then more areas will become unaffordable to the people to live and yet despite the controversy and enviromental damage they still pursue it, why probably because they have a lot of freinds with money invested in the project. By the way I was born in the south.

 

[mikej460]

Then Labour thought we have had the best so lets compete with the torries for the worst and along came Corbyn

No, Brown came next and by totally mis-managing the impending recession he almost financially ruined the country which then let the Tories in, resulting in years of austerity that crippled the NHS and Social Care.

Corbyn was just too far left, a total socialist and like you 'straight from the history books'.

Blair was good though, a great stateman, but so far up Bush's bum he could see his tonsils...which was his undoing as he took us to war based on a lie.

 

[Misterdog]

The site owner is right, what on earth else do you think Putin is?

Was Stalin a fascist as well then ? you might think that he and Hitler would have been great friends if so.

Putin worked as a KGB foreign intelligence officer for 16 years, rising to the rank of Lieutenant Colonel, Its main functions were foreign intelligence, counter-intelligence, operative-investigatory activities, guarding the State border of the USSR, guarding the leadership of the Central Committee of the Communist Party

Vladimir Putin - Wikipedia

My step mother was incarcerated in a Russian labour camp for 10 years, Russian labour camps were not the soft option that prison is, our family had no idea whether she was alive or dead.....

Still with the simplicity of the modern world all that is required is to change a 0 to a 1 or vice-versa.
So changing Communism into Fascism is simple.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

Corbyn sat on a referendum fence for four years - not so much a leader as a political balancing act. John McDonnell was the brains. Most (not all) of his shadow cabinet were limited ability sycophants - hungry for political power but bereft of real talent.

I had some regard for Blair, probably as he was so close to the centre ground. Clever, able, positive etc. But he blotted his copybook with fabricated weapons of mass destruction, dodgy dossier followed by war in the Middle East. Brown was honest but uninspiring.

Starmer has potential but is now frequently reverting to opposition stereotype - too early or too late; too much or too little, too fast or too slow; etc. Rather disappointing but streets ahead of Corbyn.

The opposition are not responsible for the actions of the party in power. But they are the opposition because they failed to persuade voters they were a coherent, plausible, convincing alternative.

 

[rafezetter]

How do you think it enters the house in the first place, then? Down the chimney like Father Christmas?
From meeting people outside the house, not observing the rules.
I take it you're against pubs, theatres and restaurants being closed as well?

Cozzer - in answer to your last question the answer is YES - when the first lockdown happened Rorshach was extremely vocal about how the lockdown was unnecessary, how businesses (including his NON ECONOMICALLY VITAL business) should be allowed to continue trading and were financially affected and pretty much every other reason he could find to throw at it.

None of which stuck in the face of self evidenced reduction of transmission figures from lockdown - he was also pretty much the only forumite to openly say he's happy to let old people die to save the economy - one good thing about the fact historical posts cannot be edited on this forum now is that if anyone desires to go through his post history on the topic of covid, he will be revealed for all to see as a rather despicable human being - or at the very least to vehemently adhere to views not commonly held by the rest of socially conscious society, you could be forgiven for thinking he's just a harmless troll but from all evidence (as you've seen) he actually believes the nonsense he's spouting.

However he's still living in the same house as he was then, he's not been forced to sell the family silver to financially survive (unlike others) and is clearly doing fine; sure his personal finances have taken a hit - haven't we all - Bboo ffing Hoo, still doesn't give him and others the right to essentially condemn INNOCENT** people to death.

** the guilty superspreaders - yeah, happy to shoot them in the face in front of their families and social group, maybe that way they'll get the message. Why families and social groups? Because personal observance shows when a group of several young people are together, or families it's uncommon to see one of them without a mask - peer pressure, but I see a whole bunch of solitary people and couples not wearing masks and I beleive the mentality of "wearing masks vs not" is a group socially reinforced behaviour, parents don't so teenagers don't, and if they are not wearing masks it's a safe bet they are not sanitising either.

Sanitising stations are still everywhere, is there a queue to use it in the local supermarket? Nope, most seem to walk right on past.

Rorshach - I'm sure you'll accuse me of a troll hunt and report this post to the mods but the truth is 3 words "hoist, own, petard" - all I'm doing is shining a spotlight on it, that's the problem of saying stuff publically, some of us will remember and remind others of the stupidity displayed; this is the internet and this is the rules of game now, your own post history shows most of what you say on the topic of covid should be treated with derision and disregarded as self serving BS.

Mods, happy for you to factcheck my claims in rorshachs history before you delete this - you would be astounded and apalled.

Jacob - Broadband for all by now? Are you serious? We don't even have broadband for all areas when it's financially viable for private enterprise - what on earth makes you think the govt can afford to spend hundreds of billions bringing broadband TO ALL - do you even understand the mechanics of that statement? There are still places in the UK that don't even have a landline! If the Govt tried a "TO ALL" policy, they will fail, and spectacularly and create a new kind of poverty "internet poverty" where people will blame lack of internet for thier own personal failures, because it's "the govts job to give it to us" instead of doing something like relocating to an area with good coverage if thier job or childrens education required it.

You've clearly not even remotely thought this through - you don't even think HST is a good idea! (note; I agree the handling of it has been rubbish, but the premise is sound and has been proven to be VERY beneficial in many other poorer nations like Turkey whom already have a HST, and you only have to look at Japan to see HST's are a no brainer.)

 

[Rorschach]

@rafezetter I wouldn't ask the mods to delete your posts, they are the best best entertainment on this forum. You remind me of someone else on another forum I visit, they also entertain me greatly. Keep up the good work.

 

[Jacob]

.....

Jacob - Broadband for all by now? Are you serious? We don't even have broadband for all areas when it's financially viable for private enterprise - what on earth makes you think the govt can afford to spend hundreds of billions bringing broadband TO ALL ......

It's about updating the existing system, hardly revolutionary. Fibre is steadily replacing copper already. We have it here in rural Derbyshire. Compared to other infrastructure proposals it's pretty cheap, which is why all sorts of odd places are already at it Internet in South Korea - Wikipedia 97%
Japan 99% etc etc

 

[Jake]

Was Stalin a fascist as well then ? you might think that he and Hitler would have been great friends if so.

Stalin was clearly a communist. Hitler and he were pretty tight for a while, similar worldviews (if polar opposite ideologies) and happy to carve up Europe until Hitler welched on the deal.

Still with the simplicity of the modern world all that is required is to change a 0 to a 1 or vice-versa. So changing Communism into Fascism is simple.

It's not actually all that big a pivot, all the authoritarian structures are the same. Quick step across the end of the horseshoe. Grab all the state owned property into the hands of the few, change a few initials and away you go.

 

[Misterdog]

You obviously find Diane Abbott very exciting, you mention her quite often.
She made one clumsy mistake years ago on a TV prog, just like hundreds of other MPs have done over the years, not to mention Johnson himself.
It's kept Sun readers in a frenzy of excitement ever since, poor things!
In fact she's a very clever and highly qualified woman with a very successful career as an MP and highly rated by her constituents.
Wouldn't you fancy having Liz Truss under your desk, or Gavin Williamson perhaps? Freshen up your fantasies?

One clumsy mistake ?, then sent her son to a private school (new party policy or just for the privileged few?).

http://socialistreview.org.uk/280/education-dear-diane-abbott
Ms Abbott made Jonathan Aitken, the former Conservative cabinet minister who served a prison sentence for perjury, her son's godfather.

As to her sons behaviour involving assault of police and NHS workers, having crystal meth delivered to his mothers home, while she was shadow home secretary, and subsequent sectioning. Google is your friend.

The perfect politician.

 

[rafezetter]

We heard the NZ line here in the US, too. It's naive to think that you could lock down a gigantic economy that was already inundated with covid (be it britain or the US, or italy or whatever else) vs. NZ who had a couple of cases or australia who had a couple of cases and not much else. But if you're into pointing fingers at someone else, have at it.

Have you read the accounts of "all of the people" you're talking about re: the spanish flu? Are we villainizing them?

Covid was here to stay no matter what. it would take literally a couple of cases to make sure that it never went away - even without realizing that there are unstable parts of the globe where it would never be managed in the first place.

So we isolate them, why should the rest of the planet pay the price?

Let's get real people, this is a dry run for a more virulent pandemic that WILL happen sometime down the line - we've been overdue for decades and with international travel being what it is and humanity spreading as we are, and worldwide pollution being what it is - it's a goddamn certainty.

Yes you could have "locked down" or otherwise better managed even a gigantic economy like the USA, because the USA is still just a bunch of SMALLER economies, just like everyplace else.

As I said covid lasts only DAYS without a host and is currently EASILY killed on surfaces etc - the absolute ideal scenarios would have been to lock everything down for a month, and I mean everything, enforced with martial law and internment camps - yes I'm being wholly serious - if covid had been ebola, that's exactly what would have happened and I defy you to say different; once you accept that drastic situations require drastic action, it's a simple direct correlation.

If time could be turned back and humanity offered the above scenario for a month or two worldwide, compared to the now perpetual threat of covid and the economic cost (so far) that is going to generations to balance - what do you think the answer would be?

Humanity COULD have been entirely covid free by now - instead we've now folded this new virus into the yearly death count alongside the flu, and we have absolutely NO WAY of knowing how it will evolve and mutate.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - history will judge us all - we COULD have got a handle on this, but we instead allowed the bleeding hearts "show me the money / it's against my constitional rights / I have the right to my freedom / blah / blah / blah" people to condemn us all.

 

[Billy_wizz]

It is no good being all that if you come across as incompetant and way out of your depth but it is unfortunate that todays MPs all seem to have various issues, maybe just that today with all the technology they can nolonger hide it but I have absolutely no faith or confidence in any politician of today and something needs to change. The last politician I had any admiration for was Blair, life during his terms was good but we needed that having suffered from thatcher, who single handedly did more destruction to the UK than the Luftwaffe. Then Labour thought we have had the best so lets compete with the torries for the worst and along came Corbyn straight out of the history books and completly out of touch with reality, and that was the end of Labour for me like it was for so many others and I can fully understand why the younger generations no longer take interest in politics and won't until a major shake up. One minute they claim to want to be carbon free, next minute agree to a new coal mine. Talk about protecting the enviroment and then lets give the developers the power to cover it with housing sounds like one u turn after another. If I was the PM all project decisions would be based on one simple criteria, they have to deliver the most benefit to the most people and not just support a few who are going to financially gain. HS2 will create the Northern powerhouse, no the Victorians created the northern powerhouse that fueled the industrial revolution and since then consecutive governments have just laid waste to it. HS2 will just increase the catchment area for people to work in London and then more areas will become unaffordable to the people to live and yet despite the controversy and enviromental damage they still pursue it, why probably because they have a lot of freinds with money invested in the project. By the way I was born in the south.

When Thatcher got in the country was bankrupt and if you're house is going to be repossessed then you sell what's in it to save it the union's where rampant and used to getting everything they wanted so while I don't agree with all her decisions she dragged the country out of a pretty dark hole! As for Tony yes but no but yes I don't like your question so will waffle and redirect until the interview host gets bored and move on put the NHS in a wage black hole by doubling the staff numbers when there weren't enough of the right staff creating an over padded unneeded middle management staff sector that drains money from frontline staff and services then he got his mates to build hospitals for free on the agreement that they got the service contracts rinsing the NHS of huge amounts over what a hospital would cost and payments still going up or working families tax credit that pushed inflation to match the new spending potential whilst trapping millions on the need for government hand outs and allowing large businesses to rake in the profits keeping wages artificially low because middle Britain will pick up the tab! Whilst rushing headlong into a major new dept spiral at the point most intelligent people could see a crash coming? Yes great man hope you enjoyed your 10-15 Blair years because we're all still paying for it