How Not to Make a Japanese Tool Box!

[RossJarvis]

Well then, I thought you might be interested in my further attempts at backyard chipentry. Even if you’re not I’m still going to start posting about it anyway. Having got a couple of Japanese saws I thought I’d look up my Japanese tool book again. In there, the author mentions the traditional Japanese Carpenter’s tool-box, which seems very basic and simple and functional. “Hey hey” says I, “even I could make that, shouldn’t be too difficult!”. How wrong could I possibly be? Scouting around t’internet there’s a good few how to do these and probably a few on UKWorkshop too. However this is different, this is a “how not to build a Japanese(ish) tool box!”.

So then, I found a passing friend going to B&Q, cadged a lift and got some 12” by 1750mm boards;



…got round to finishing some low Japanese saw stools I’d started;



and ventured once more into the “workshop”;



I had bought 3 boards, having “ahem” carefully worked out how many I might need to do the job from my immaculate plans;



First thing was to work out how long to make it, my initial idea was to make it as wide and as high as a board and long enough for the longest tool to fit in. As this is going to be my longest saw, I stuck a saw on the board at the end at an angle;




The front? of the saw is where the end of the inside of the box will be and there’ll be a bit of board across the top end about 3 inches wide, so I added 3” onto the end of the handle and rounded it up to a nice round number, this’ll be 30” long. Next I marked square across the board;



…notice my nice new Japanese marking knife? My old Footprint is not pointy and only works one way round, so instead of grinding it pointy I spent some money instead. ……and then cut three boards all at once;



…at this point I’m quite chuffed by following the line very closely and cutting right next to it and it’s cut square;



Next thing I realise is the board is rounded down one edge, “It’s shelving you plonker, course it’s got a rounded edge!”, plus one of the boards is a few mm narrower than the other two;



Hmm, this quick and easy five minute job’s starting to look like a bit like a two or three day-er now. So time to sit down and have two cups of tea to sort out what to do. The boards’ll need to be the same width, or two will at least, plus I think I’ll need to have flat tops or bottoms to glue to the other bits. Wot I needs to do is plane the edges flat, together. I could try clamping them together and standing them up, but I’m sure there’s a better way. Aha, why not make a shooting board says I!;

So I get two of the other board ends, one sticking out to run the plane on, and one recessed to give clearance for the iron to plane edge and out with my trusty 5 ½ ;



Shhh shhh shhh and some nice long shavings;



However, after a little while the old lumbago started playing up and I realised why the Japanese sit on the floor with pull-planes, so I thought I needed some elevation;



…nope, that aint working;



…yep, that’s better, a couple of clamps and some wedged strips and oooh look at those nice fine shavings;



(it almost looks like I know wot I’m doing for a second!). shh shhh shh for a bit and;



there’s some nice level boards and….;



yep, that’s square;



and straight.

To be continued…….

 

[No skills]

Japanese saws, fancy sketch up drawings. The budgets blown already.

 

[RossJarvis]

Japanese saws, fancy sketch up drawings. The budgets blown already.

You do not know how correct you are, I'm currently working out how to make sandpaper with what I've got lying around, Weetabix box, spray carpet glue and a bag of sand is the current plan!!

The next bit is to make the ends. These are recessed for some handles. Now the width is, erm, let me think, the width of the board minus two thicknesses, that’s about……I know, measure the thickness of two boards, lay one across the bit I’m going to cut, take off the two thicknesses and hit it with the saw;



B****r, I knew I was being overly chuffed, this means a lot of shaving with the block plane, to get to the line;



and…….b****r, test fitting showed I was too wide and the sides were about 5mm wider than the base with the ends in place;



……so I took 5mm off the ends with the saw (actually followed the line this time) and then the whole lot was about 3mm too narrow?????????????;



After a cup of thinking tea, I realised that one of the boards was a couple of mm thinner than the other two and I swapped them around too often!! Should have marked each side and the bottom with big letters or summat. Anyway, I thought it was either time to go in or carry on and glue and pin it up. Typically, I made the wrong decision and carried on when it was obvious my thinking brain had decided to go inside without me. I next put some temporary blocks inside the sides to stick the ends up to when putting it together (the end pieces will go up to the inner side of these, as there’s a recess for handles at each end);



It put some effort and more thinking tea to come up with how to do this, with no work table and only two 12” handy clamps. Bearing in mind my thinking brain was in-doors watching the telly, this proved to not be the best decision I’ve ever made, but that’s for tomorrow……..

 

[RossJarvis]

So, onto the blunders of the day. As mentioned. The thinking brain was indoors watching Top Gear on Dave (for the 15 millionth time), whilst the body was outside. Looking at the box, I thought it was looking a bit tall for it’s width and was also thinking about having a tray that fitted inside for bits n bobs n stuff. “I know”, says I “build it, cut the top off, fiddle a bit to make the top smaller and you’ve got four sides of a tray to fit inside.” So I bunged my tallest tool inside;



…and worked out that I’d need six inches clearance for the bottom. I could then work out how big the top was, divide it in two, do a little fiddling for clearance etc and know how much to cut off. Pure genius!

However, I then started sticking it together, somehow I now convinced myself that I was going to cut the top off six inches from the base!!!! So sellotaped the sides of the end bits 6” up so they wouldn’t stick to the side bits?!?;



squirted some glue on the end wotsits, cack handedly assembled these on the base-board and clamped the ends together and pinned the top and bottoms of the end wotsits from the outside;



This lot seemed square and level in the up and downward dimension as it was all flush and tightish to the board, so I flipped it over and pinned the bottom on, ensuring that the ends of the side-boards(!?!) were flush at one end of the base and one side at least, was flush with the edge of the base.

Now, as I’ve mentioned more than once, the thinking brain was inside, now having a snooze on the sofa. I had a couple of options on joining the whole lot together, screws or nails. The old traditional Japanese way is with nails and to my mind it’s a bit easier than screwing (fnaar fnaar). So I bashed a couple of nails in free-hand;



T**s, B****r and other expletives, so I got out Mr Makita “He very tough, He very Strong” and drilled some pilot holes in for the rest. Bash, Bash, Bish, Ouch, the base was on the sides and ends, all I had to do was bash the sides onto the end wotsits. So I flipped it on its side, Bash, Bish, Bosh and job done. However, had I checked that the end wotsits were supported when Bashing? Course not, so they’d slipped down a bit and then got bashed into position in the wrong position;



…still I suppose it’ll help for drainage or air circulation or Summat. I marked the centre(ish)lines of the boards for nailing, but left final positioning up to my own aesthetic principles;



I believe the non-even spacing is based on the Golden Section and therefore much more philosophically correct than using a rule.!!

I also realised that the edges of the end wotsits weren’t square to the faces, leaving more room for expansion (and too much for adhesion);



Anyway, it surely can’t get any worse can it? So onward and upward for a new day.

TTFN

 

[mseries]

isn't one of the traits of a Japanese toolbox the through tenons holding the ends to the sides ? With those done nicely you'll probably not need nails nor screws, just joinery and glue. I hate to criticise as I am enjoying this thread and your narrative.

 

[No skills]

Hmmm, lack of sandpaper could be a problem on a job like this. Do you have any family from 'up north' ? I have been led to believe they have plenty of 'grit' there, perhaps they can send you some.

Failing that I'll send some in the post.

 

[RossJarvis]

Hmmmm! Have you ever had one of those days when you’ve thought “I don’t think I should have done that!” or “I really don’t think I should have gone out to the workshop today, cos my thinking brain is still asleep” or “WHY OH WHY OH WHY DID I GET OUT OF BED!!!”

Today has been one of those days. I should have learnt the last time I tried to cut the lid off a box, or I should have got the table saw out, or I should have decided the box looked fine as it was. Currently I don’t think I should have thought “I know, I’ll cut the top off that box, with a Japanese saw that I’ve not got used to yet”.

It almost started well. I marked a line 6” up from the base on each side, then remembered that that’s the height of my plane. So I measured from there to the top, divided that in two, thought a bit then guessed that 2 ½” down from the top would be okay, rubbed the first line out and marked the new line. Next I started ripping along the lines at each corner, till I started cutting into the recessed ends and marked a line across from the kerfs. So far so good. I was noticing that there was a lot of juddering going on, which I hadn’t had when testing the rip side of the blades out. I then tried ripping across the ends;



At this point, I was finding it a bit tricky as the saw was juddering quite a bit and it was difficult getting the angle right, plus I wasn’t following the line as well as usual. I was thinking it might be because I wasn’t standing above the work. Anyway, I cut across both ends;



..not brilliant but not too far out. Next to rip down the sides. For this the work was lower and I could put a foot on it, however;



Hmmmm, not quite on the line here, and I don’t think the blade should be over at that angle. I carried on from the other end and joined the two cuts up. Then I started on the other side and “OH WHAT THE B****Y H***S GOING ON HERE!!!” I was getting frustrated with the saw juddering, then it was leaning more and more to the right and then I lost the line and will to live;


Here’s the top bit wot I cut off;



…and here’s the bottom bit wot I’ve got left;





and here’s where the b****y saw bit me;



All I can say is ****, ****, ****ity, ****, ****!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I’ve now got a box with a top edge all on the p**s (at an angle) in every b****y angle known to man and probably some unknown ones, plus some bits for a tray which is completely on the p**s in the opposite manner.

****, ****, ****ity, ****, ****!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How the b****y h**l am I gonna sort this out? The options seem to be; a, lots of planing, once I’ve marked a new line to go to, by hand; b, Getting out the planer and making a racket and shavings everywhere; c, unboxing the table saw and using that.

****, ****, ****ity, ****, ****!!!!!!!!

Todays main lesson learnt appears to be that using Japanese saws requires some practice and finding the correct technique and way of holding them.

B****r, I’m going out for a walk, I may be some time!

 

[Racers]

A bit of smoothing an it will be fine.

It's not how good you are, it's how good you are at hiding your mistakes.

Pete

 

[RossJarvis]

isn't one of the traits of a Japanese toolbox the through tenons holding the ends to the sides ? With those done nicely you'll probably not need nails nor screws, just joinery and glue. I hate to criticise as I am enjoying this thread and your narrative.

There's a few different styles, but the most common I've seen, of the old school is a very plain nailed type. There seemed to be some inverse snobbery where the carpenter went for a very plain, if not crude, box. I had enough of tenons on the last job and was looking for an easy project . Looking at a lot of Japanese joinery, there's a strange reliance on very crude nailing for much work, wheras the Western tradition is more on tenoning and dovetails etc.

 

[Paul Chapman]

I bet the apprentice was glad he wasn't around........

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[RossJarvis]

Hmmm, lack of sandpaper could be a problem on a job like this. Do you have any family from 'up north' ? I have been led to believe they have plenty of 'grit' there, perhaps they can send you some.

Failing that I'll send some in the post.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I used to live in Sheffield and have friends there (although some dispute if it's really North) They've got so much grit round there I think they used to export it!!

 

[RossJarvis]

I bet the apprentice was glad he wasn't around........

Cheers :wink:

Paul

"Yeah, it's quite a close fit innit..."

"...ere, wot you doin' with that spade?...."

 

[Paul Chapman]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[No skills]

From Sheffield, surely you should be forging your own tools?

What's the thoughts on fixing todays experiment?

 

[RossJarvis]

From Sheffield, surely you should be forging your own tools?

What's the thoughts on fixing todays experiment?

I was told by the judge to stop forging....after the last lot of £9 notes!!!

Looking at the first attempt I can see the corners were okay and pretty square, it was when I was ripping along that it went all to cock. So far my brain was saying that planing by hand would be a pain, as the bits where the corners meet would be hard to do. I then had an idea and now I'm thinking to mark a line all round, to the lowest of the crap bit, then re-cut the corners and cut the corner waste out, which just leaves the raised middles of the top of the boards to plane flat. See diagram below;



..am just hoping the thinking brain has re-engaged! The thin bits for the tray shouldn't be too difficult...should they?

 

[No skills]

Bet the judge kept a few notes.

Sounds like a fair plan to level the box, will it still be tall enough after levelling?

My solution was to glue the top bit back on and re cut it with something that has a much wider kerf, funnly enough those handy Festival folks have started selling a saw that could be used - but again you would need to be in the white slavery business to afford it.

Being thick I don't understand where the thin bits are or what you are doing with them, given enough tea and bourbons all will be well.

 

[paul saunders]

Just mark a new line all the way around at the lowest point, plane the corners flush to the line with your block plane and then plane the rest with a no4 or no5.

Sent from my AN10BG3 using Tapatalk 2

 

[RossJarvis]

Thanks for the input guys, both good ideas.

The thin bits are the "top bits" of the box that I cut off. These are going to be the sides of the tray that fits into the top of the box. And yes, there may not be enough box left for what I want. I suppose I could cut the top of the plane off! I saw a blog by a Swedish chap who made one of these boxes, but it was a bit too small for his Japanese square, so he chopped the end off the square! I thought it was a brilliant solution, if not a little unorthodox.

I must admit a bit of drooling over the Festitool range, but somehow I don't think I'll be buying much. If I saved up for a year or two I might be able to buy one of their nice boxes. Not being a white slaver is why I'm cacking up making my own box out of tree.

Thanks for the idea about the block plane on the corners Paul. I'm just wondering how long that would take with about 1/3" to cut down to. I had a lot of trouble planing the corners of a box before and I'm not quite getting my head round how to do it. maybe I'd need to plane a slope down to the corners?

 

[dm65]

Is someone making a box ??

10 out of 10 for the commentary, wetting myself reading it

Keep up the good work - at least the dog looks happy - oh, sorry, he doesn't

 

[RossJarvis]

Is someone making a box ??

10 out of 10 for the commentary, wetting myself reading it

Keep up the good work - at least the dog looks happy - oh, sorry, he doesn't

Dog? dog? what dog? Oh, you mean "the apprentice". I found him down the job-centre, they said he was Cumbrian, you know, very hairy, very short, with enormous feet. Designed for working outside all day long but prefer to lounge around the house all day thinking about cheese! He is a bit hairy I admit, but I think you need that to keep out the cold and the wet up in the Lakes.