How do you do it? Your business

[baldkev]

Following on from hijacking another thread, i thought id start this one.

Im a self employed chippy, i cover general building, but the majority of my work is finishing carpentry ( kitchens, built in cupboards etc. ) i work alone, just getting plumbers, electricians and plasterers as required.

At the moment, i work during the day and admin ( quotes, invoices, ordering, research etc ), meeting customers etc, gets done at night. Ive lost interest in having to do all this stuff even though i know its necessary. Ive even got lax arranging the next set of jobs because its just hasstle but of course, missing half a day or a day a week to do that stuff means lost time/ money.

What do you do and when??

 

[blackteaonesugar]

Well, I'm similar in that I absolutely hate quoting. Particularly at the moment when everything is just so expensive, I almost give up sometimes as I know the final figure will sound ridiculous.
Often I'll reduce the rate I work for to make it sound more acceptable. I know I shouldn't do that but it sometimes feels like I simply wouldn't get jobs otherwise. Jobs with less pay are better than no jobs right?

I don't think people really appreciate how much goes into quoting for bespoke furniture/carpentry. It's not the same as quoting to supply ten bags of potatoes or something.

Generally, every project is very different and I'll very often have to draw it out completely in Sketchup to get a good sense of the materials involved and consequently the cost.

I guess you get better at this with experience and can say a ballpark area that something might be. I've started to be able to do that more, but I'm still not really earning decent money.

You have to give yourself time to do admin though. No business runs without it and so you have to factor it in. It sucks taking your evenings up but if you can put aside an afternoon or day a week, I guess it's your only option.
You've got to have a life too.
There's a lot I'm not overly keen on being self employed but then other things are better.

 

[Adam W.]

I found that specialist building maintenance, on a day rate is where the money is. Not designing and making stuff or building extensions.

That is why I decided to learn historic carving and gilding to add to my skills. Now I can charge even more for doing things no one else offers and I can offer all sorts of repairs to all sorts of different parts of a buildings fabric.

I'll even act as a consultant on building conservation if you want to pay me even more money.

As for quoting, it's £alotofmoney per hour + materials and vat sir.

 

[artie]

Often I'll reduce the rate I work for to make it sound more acceptable.

I found myself doing that, when prices started to skyrocket, but it dawned on me, I can't afford to.
Then for a while I prefaced every verbal quote with a short speech about how prices have increased etc.
Now I just give the price as nonchalantly as possible and mostly they take it, if they wanted a cheap job they wouldn't be coming to me in the first place.
If it's complicated I give them a ballpark price and say "If that's the kind of money you're looking to spend I can work you out an exact price.
I'll still leave a little wiggle room, but if they insist on a firm price, I'll make sure I'm on the right side.

 

[MarkAW]

Do you use any software that helps speed up your admin?

 

[artie]

Do you use any software that helps speed up your admin?

For jobs I do on a regular basis, I have a spreadsheet with all materials, quantities and price entered

When I get a new delivery, if the price has increased, all I have to do is amend the raw material price on the spreadsheet and retail price is sorted automatically.

I use a spreadsheet for profit and loss as well.

I'm just one man micro sole trader, so it's quite simple.

 

[clogs]

I found that just taking Friday afternoons off payed in the log run....
yes the odd job ate into it on the odd time.....
Sligtly different now....I give a high estimate of the job....
anything else I say u cant afford it and walk away....
they either want u or not but thats the privelage of being recomended.....
and actually refusing the odd job doesn't hurt ur reputation...it makes em more determined to get u working for them......
BUT I dont have 3 kids n a house loan to worry about.....
I like my work and even found it hard to take a break for a family holiday....
This last 10 years.... I dont give a stuff, if I want time off everything stops until I'm ready...
like it or lump it......
BUT If I start a job I dont leave until its fin.....ever....
sorry no help at all I'm afraid....

 

[blackteaonesugar]

Trouble is when I take an early afternoon to get on the laptop, I tend to fall asleep as soon as I sit down

 

[MarkAW]

I see there are some accounting apps about that work on phones. I guess that might work to help do the 'paperwork' as you go, making it less of a chore
I've no experience of them. I'm not self employed, but have wondered. Find this thread interesting

 

[baldkev]

Well, I'm similar in that I absolutely hate quoting. Particularly at the moment when everything is just so expensive, I almost give up sometimes as I know the final figure will sound ridiculous.
Often I'll reduce the rate I work for to make it sound more acceptable. I know I shouldn't do that but it sometimes feels like I simply wouldn't get jobs otherwise. Jobs with less pay are better than no jobs right?

I don't think people really appreciate how much goes into quoting for bespoke furniture/carpentry. It's not the same as quoting to supply ten bags of potatoes or something.

Generally, every project is very different and I'll very often have to draw it out completely in Sketchup to get a good sense of the materials involved and consequently the cost.

I guess you get better at this with experience and can say a ballpark area that something might be. I've started to be able to do that more, but I'm still not really earning decent money.

You have to give yourself time to do admin though. No business runs without it and so you have to factor it in. It sucks taking your evenings up but if you can put aside an afternoon or day a week, I guess it's your only option.
You've got to have a life too.
There's a lot I'm not overly keen on being self employed but then other things are better.

Yep, i just made an oak unit to house a dvd unit and sky box. By the time id got the oak, sawn it to width, planed it, glued into boards, cut to length, set up a mitre lock bit, mitred the corners, trenched a shelf, cut shelf to length, glue up, following day sand back / clean up, 4 coats of stain and 2 coats of polyurethane ( over a few evenings) i must have spent over 10 hours on it.
I couldnt hit them with a big bill. No prices were asked, but its just an oak dvd box

Do you use any software that helps speed up your admin?

Great question! No my accountant said if i go vat registered id better get quickbooks or zero. Im trying to avoid vat.

Find this thread interesting

Yep, its interesting to see how other people do things/ view the usual problems.

I'll still leave a little wiggle room, but if they insist on a firm price, I'll make sure I'm on the right side.

I guess its partly about having the confidence to loose work. I often feel sorry for customers because its so expensive but thats not really my problem/ fault!

I'll even act as a consultant on building conservation if you want to pay me even more money.

Youve probably nailed it, specialising can be the best paid. Ive got a side thing i started that is pretty niche, but turns out no one spends money in bats im thinking of trying to get corporate sponsors ( they'll get the 'green credentials ' bonus for supporting wildlife projects )

 

[Doug B]

I don’t quote much these days in part because I’ve had my customer base so long & also I can’t be ars3d, I hate book work with a passion & tend to leave it all till the end of March
I been told they are on about doing tax returns quarterly does anyone know if that’s true?

 

[doctor Bob]

I employ a lady to do all the accounting stuff for me.
Get quotes and cutting sheets done during the day.
Gone are the days of working all hours, but certainly did it in the past.

 

[baldkev]

I been told they are on about doing tax returns quarterly does anyone know if that’s true?

A quick google suggests the idea has been scrapped....
Do you ever bakance out a bill if its high or is it just what it is? Whenever i reduce a price I'm conscious that im devaluing my time, but sometimes it just seems too steep.

I employ a lady to do all the accounting stuff for me.

I guess this is just another overhead to build into the quotes.... and am i right in thinking you do mainly custom kitchens?

 

[doctor Bob]

I guess this is just another overhead to build into the quotes....

Not at all, she earns less than what I want to earn per hour, so it's a cost saving.
I can't understand why people want to do say paperwork when you can pay someone less to do it for you.

 

[doctor Bob]

I just made an oak unit to house a dvd unit and sky box. By the time id got the oak, sawn it to width, planed it, glued into boards, cut to length, set up a mitre lock bit, mitred the corners, trenched a shelf, cut shelf to length, glue up, following day sand back / clean up, 4 coats of stain and 2 coats of polyurethane ( over a few evenings) i must have spent over 10 hours on it.
I couldnt hit them with a big bill. No prices were asked, but its just an oak dvd box

This is a real bad business mistake. All prices should be fixed before starting and priced to be profitable

 

[baldkev]

This is a real bad business mistake. All prices should be fixed before starting and priced to be profitable

I guess if i had priced it, i would have underestimated it for sure. Plus, if i priced it at its actual value, they probably wouldnt go for it ( although thats where you have to loose the job )

 

[doctor Bob]

I guess if i had priced it, i would have underestimated it for sure. Plus, if i priced it at its actual value, they probably wouldnt go for it ( although thats where you have to loose the job )

Exactly, you would have been better off, giving them £50 and walking away.
Mis pricing can be crippling for a business especially a start up. You need to be very accurate on how long things will take you. If you can't do that then I honestly believe you don't have enough experience (in cabinet making)

 

[baldkev]

If you can't do that then I honestly believe you don't have enough experience (in cabinet making)

I definitely don't in making one off bits like the oak box. Built in units and kitchen fitting i can estimate, but making things in the workshop takes longer than i imagine. ( i havent been at it long )
Most of my jobs i dont have to price as its repeat customers who know me, but i guess they also know i wont rip them off

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Not at all, she earns less than what I want to earn per hour, so it's a cost saving.
I can't understand why people want to do say paperwork when you can pay someone less to do it for you.

Slightly off tack but my father many years ago was asked to join the Round Table and chop firewood for OAPs for an hour at at Xmas. He said he would send ten men as he made per hour what they were earning and he'd rather be doing something else. They told him that wasn't really the idea so he told them to stuff it.

 

[doctor Bob]

Wow, I admire your faith in your fellow man. I give a price for everything before starting, repeat business or not.