How do you compete with these prices?

[flanajb]

I love making contemporary furniture and keep thinking about how I would go about making a living from it. But when I see the furniture available online and the price it is being sold for, I just can't see how anybody can make a living, yet even survive.

For example, I really like these bed side cabinets that are being sold by a company in London

http://www.untothislast.co.uk/Storage/BedsideDrw.html

£125 for the white one. That would take a couple of days to make and even then you have to take materials, finishing into the equation.

Very curious how people survive in this industry

 

[bugbear]

I love making contemporary furniture and keep thinking about how I would go about making a living from it. But when I see the furniture available online and the price it is being sold for, I just can't see how anybody can make a living, yet even survive.

For example, I really like these bed side cabinets that are being sold by a company in London

http://www.untothislast.co.uk/Storage/BedsideDrw.html

£125 for the white one. That would take a couple of days to make and even then you have to take materials, finishing into the equation.

Very curious how people survive in this industry

Mass production and/or cheap labour (probably "and")

Same as the QS planes we love to buy.

BugBear

 

[nanscombe]

I would imagine a 9 to 5 job doing something else might help. :wink:

 

[Rhossydd]

That would take a couple of days to make

I doubt it. All the parts are cut with a digital router, then it's just an 'Airfix' job to glue/bolt it all together. Maybe twenty minutes ?
Finishing ? only the edges seem waxed from their documentation.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

I agree....its a thought process I've had many a time and a very frustrating one. I think the economic answer is as Bugbear has mentioned ie high capital value cutting equipment like CNC to speed up production and then cheap labour to assemble. Material cost is kept low by bulk purchasing muscle and using sheet goods as much as possible.

The sad thing is that what turns me on about wood is the combination of the design and build. If that creative bit up front wasn't there it would quickly become boring and repetitive rote tasks. That I suspect is what most "jobs" in industry offer. The design is all done on CAD and the rest of the work force are moving bits of material around the machines.

The only world in which this somewhat "nostalgic" notion of cabinet making exists is work done to commission and that is I suspect very competitive and peopled by folk with a hell of a lot more skill than I have. I suspect that market is very small and already over crowded.
If I had my time again I would train to be a regular jobbing chippy. Some of the work is boring of course but at least you're working with a lot of real wood and the creative element comes in the form of problem solving. How many millions of tricky situations occur on site and of the 3 houses I've built in the last 20 years, its always the chippys that come up with the solutions. As a breed they're brilliant problem solvers and not just with wood. Ask a bricky and....not so much

 

[doctor Bob]

You need to find your market place and excel at it.
My work is commission only. Making a range of furniture and then trying to sell it would worry the hell out of me.
We used to make all sorts but now try to stick to built in furniture especially kitchens.
We try and follow trends as closely as possible and add uniqueness by using bespoke extractors, curved cabinets but above all we have built a reputation over a number of years and now get some fantastic commissions.

CNC's have made these individual items available to the masses at low cost

 

[bugbear]

CNC's have made these individual items available to the masses at low cost

Morris will be spinning in his grave - God forbid the masses are allowed to have nice stuff due to mechanisation!

BugBear

 

[Rhossydd]

nice stuff

That depends on whether you think this type of product counts as 'nice stuff', I don't.

 

[bugbear]

nice stuff

That depends on whether you think this type of product counts as 'nice stuff', I don't.

The OP did/does

BugBear

 

[deema]

The main carcass sides, top and bottom appears to be a continuous bent piece of laminated wood that has been veneered on both sides. Anyone any ideas how to make it? I made the mistake of showing my Boss in an apron and now it appears I have another unpaid commission!!

 

[doctor Bob]

The main carcass sides, top and bottom appears to be a continuous bent piece of laminated wood that has been veneered on both sides. Anyone any ideas how to make it? I made the mistake of showing my Boss in an apron and now it appears I have another unpaid commission!!

easiest and cheapest way is to buy one, if not you need a vacuum press / bag system

 

[chippy1970]

There was an interesting show on the telly the other week. Can't remember the title but a guy went into a family furniture business to try and help them compete. They were making too many items and were told to narrow it down and find their market.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

 

[custard]

Very curious how people survive in this industry

By and large they don't. Or at least not in the classical designer/maker tradition. They try it for a while but see their debts pile up and drift across into fitted kitchens, or subbing for a contract joinery company...or they simply lose the race and fold which is why you see so much decent three phase equipment going for a song on Ebay.

There are ways of making a (very modest) living as a designer/maker. But the room for manoeuvre is wafer thin and it's a business model that breaches many of the favourite bits of the hobbyist's dream.

One example is that the cost of the workshop itself is actually best shared by a number of makers. Working to individual commissions means that woodworking machinery is only used intermittently, so four to six makers can comfortably share a single workshop and massively reduce their individual overheads. But listening to hobbyists considering making the leap to full time career they usually hate this idea. They want to order their favourite kit and have it set up to their choosing. And they may have a point in that I've known a few of these loose partnerships implode because of practical issues that undermined relationships. If a client visits one maker, but then sees something they'd like on another maker's bench, who gets the job? What happens when one maker decides to produce a small batch of components or finished pieces, clogging up the shop to the detriment of the others? Resolving disputes like these aren't generally what the hobbyist wants to deal with!

Another example is location. The dream is usually a converted barn in idyllic countryside. Very pleasant for the maker, but where are the clients going to come from? Which pushes the business back into an urban or semi-urban environment, which in turn drives up workshop costs, which then takes you back to that need for a co-operative approach.

It sometimes seems that the single most important asset for an aspiring designer/maker is an understanding partner with a proper job!

 

[Mr T]

In the previous post Custard has, as usual, hit the nail square on the head.

Sharing is a good way of reducing overheads but can be hard. A previous share of mine went horribly wrong. I am again sharing and it seems to be more or less working this time. As custard said this may not fit with the original idea for the hobbyist converting to professional, they may want solitude and roses round the workshop door!

The original OP was about how to compete with these prices. The trick is not to compete. Differentiate, find a style or level of quality or service that the cheap imports can't approach. you can then justify the prices you need to charge to make a living. It's a tight rope walk and most who attempt it fall off. I know I pointed to this article recently, but it also covers this subject http://www.christribefurniturecourses.com/index.php/the-price-is-right/

Morris will be spinning in his grave - God forbid the masses are allowed to have nice stuff due to mechanisation!

Funnily enough BB the name of the site quoted by the OP "Untothislast" is a quote from William Morris!

Chris

 

[petermillard]

The original OP was about how to compete with these prices. The trick is not to compete...

Spot on. Part of the job is to convince the (potential) customer that what you provide is worth paying for; if someone's looking to do this for a living and isn't confident of achieving that, then perhaps they should look at a business course, not a furniture-making course

 

[flanajb]

A previous share of mine went horribly wrong.

Does that explain the comment "Please note that Chris no longer works with David Wilson." on the web page?

http://www.christribefurniturecourses.c ... -is-right/

Thanks. Will have a read later

 

[Shrubby]

You cant compete with them , you can learn a lot from them though.
They are in an old pub in east london - showroom at street level and factory in the cellar. Everything is birch ply and melamine CNC'ed to order. The designs make the most of the material with minimal bought in fittings and little wastage
Location plays a big part too, they set up in a down at heel area that was becoming a fashionable place to live and shop .That area has changed remarkably in 20 years, Unto this last are simply the modern incarnation of the east end furniture trade
Matt

 

[Mr T]

Does that explain the comment "Please note that Chris no longer works with David Wilson." on the web page?

Could be!

Chris