How come bowl blanks cost so much?

[Chris152]

About £12 for and 11 x 2 inch blank (round, similar for square) of sycamore (Yandles and Axminster). So I bought a 26 x 2 x 12 inch board for £12 from Axminster and cut a couple of blanks from it.

Is there any substantial difference?

 

[CHJ]

Cost your time selecting board from the store, cutting into rounds, coating periphery with sealing wax and restacking on racks.
Add machine running and maintenance costs, waste disposal etc.
Do this at a realistic labour hourly rate as the supplier would have to do and add a profit margin to it and see what the cost of the cut blanks would be.

I do likewise and buy Planks and Billets if necessary and cut my own on the basis that my labour and time is cost neutral and more flexible on sizing etc. but I do still have to bite the bullet on machine costs and power etc..

 

[Chris152]

Thanks for the reply, Chas.

Cost your time ... coating periphery with sealing wax and restacking on racks.

Will it need that? It's air dried and I assumed would be ready for turning and finishing? I've used the same source for tables (it comes from Wentwood timber) and no warping/ distortion after months in the house.

edit - the mc's 14-15%, just checked...

 

[CHJ]

Cost your time ... coating periphery with sealing wax and restacking on racks.

Will it need that?...

No, but you are comparing and querying Retail Price mark-up/difference, you need to adjust for retail supply costs for a better comparision of what you are buying.

 

[sunnybob]

I ran my own hobby shop for 5 years (not wood related).
It was amazing how many hobbyists could not comprehend the need to make a profit to pay rent lighting wages etc.

 

[Chris152]

Ah, got you. I'm still surprised it more than doubles the cost of the wood, though. If you have a bandsaw, it really seems to make sense to cut your own from a board - I think it took me about 15 mins to mark and cut the two blanks, and for sure it'll be quicker in future (I've only really cut straight lines on the saw before so that was a new challenge, and I had to change the blade which is always a fiddle for me).

I'll be disposing of the waste tonight, freezing here...

Thanks again,

Chris

ps how come they cut and wax the blanks, rather than drying complete boards and then cutting them? Wouldn't that remove the need to wax them? Just trying to understand.

 

[Chris152]

That ps might get lost, and I think it was the real purpose of my original question:

how come they cut and wax the blanks, rather than drying complete boards and then cutting them? Wouldn't that remove the need to wax them?

Also, when they cut blanks, are they selecting the best bits of the timber for turning and rejecting otherwise good wood because it's not so good for turning?

Thanks.

 

[CHJ]

how come they cut and wax the blanks, rather than drying complete boards and then cutting them? Wouldn't that remove the need to wax them?

Anyone cutting blanks for shelf storage will invariably seal the end grain, regardless of the apparent stability in the billet or plank form, there will still be the possibility of a moisture gradient throughout and further moisture changes on the rack may take place.

Also, when they cut blanks, are they selecting the best bits of the timber for turning and rejecting otherwise good wood because it's not so good for turning?
Thanks.

Could be the oposite, depends on which hat the supplier is wearing on the day as to which school, supplying "perfect" or "character" wood.

Anyone supplying timber is going to try and market it whichever way gives maximum return.

 

[marcros]

it is worth looking at some of the deals from home of wood. A couple of times, I have struck lucky and got them from their ebay store with a 20% off voucher, but they are very good value even without.

https://www.homeofwood.co.uk/storepage1551579.aspx

 

[Dalboy]

If I was fit and able to work for 8 hours a day like I use to then this little lot may have taken two possibly three days to convert into rounds and seal the outside the same as a retail shop although they are not dry by any means. I also know that home of wood also buy in log form and dry before converting so you also need to concider cutting and stacking then space to leave them to dry or even have a kiln to dry them before converting into blanks. So as you can see this soon adds up. Then there is disposing of the waste as well.
This is the pile I just mentioned which I got at least 150+ blanks from not all in the round. This is just one wood store

 

[ScaredyCat]

I suspect it depends where you buy from. sherwingroup on t'bay sell a box of blanks for £40 or a 10Kg bag for £30 - they are of course random selections which might not be what you're after.

 

[Chris152]

Yes, I haven't shopped around, Marcros and ScaredyCat - but it definitely seems way cheaper to cut my own from boards, which I can get nearby. And if there's no real difference in the wood, I'm happy to do that for the saving. And I'm just starting to think about gathering some logs for prepping Dalboy - a friend's going to teach me to use a chainsaw properly, so in the longer term I'll have a stock.

Anyone cutting blanks for shelf storage will invariably seal the end grain, regardless of the apparent stability in the billet or plank form, there will still be the possibility of a moisture gradient throughout and further moisture changes on the rack may take place.

Right - is that because so much end grain gets exposed which could lead to splitting, like you often get on the ends of dried boards? It's all becoming clear now...

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Yes, coat the end grain regardless how you got the blank - you will expose areas uneven drying and open up stresses when you cut the board. Boards tend to be sawn from selected baulks to provide as near as possible perfect boards - which is not often the best conversion for turnery blanks - the crotches, burrs, marking, flaws? etc. would be worked around. Quite often the pieces that make the best turnery are no use as boards anyway, in fact often they are little more than firewood.

 

[woodfarmer]

No matter how dry and stable you think your plank may be, once you cut it, it can alter the dynamics within the wood enormously. When the plank dried and was cut the thing was one piece. when you cut it in half you now have two pieces which are not now supported (restrained) in the same way as before so are likely to move. Also the fresh cut on the wood is now exposed to more rapid drying than before.

Even a rough turned blank will move about, and it will do so again after it has "dried" and is finish turned.

 

[Chris152]

Ok, that's really helpful. After cutting the round, how long do you think a 'dry' blank should be left to stand/ move about before turning? And am I leaving it in the centrally-heated house that it's going to end up in, as with boards for furniture?

Thank you

C

 

[Dalboy]

Ok, that's really helpful. After cutting the round, how long do you think a 'dry' blank should be left to stand/ move about before turning? And am I leaving it in the centrally-heated house that it's going to end up in, as with boards for furniture?

Thank you

C

from what you said in the first post about buying a board and cutting it into rounds I presume the board was kiln dried if so you can turn it straight away and any movement will be so small asnot to notice. That is how I would do it but having said that any wood that is 4" or more thick I would rough turn and leave for a week or so to allow any movement.

 

[Chris152]

from what you said in the first post about buying a board and cutting it into rounds I presume the board was kiln dried if so you can turn it straight away and any movement will be so small asnot to notice. That is how I would do it but having said that any wood that is 4" or more thick I would rough turn and leave for a week or so to allow any movement.

It's air dried, i think, but at 14-15% should be pretty stable. I'm going to turn these two in the next day or so anyway on account of being impatient - I can then see how much it distorts, if at all, and it doesn't matter too much at this stage as I'm really only trying to learn to use the tools. But this is all great for future planning - thanks Dalboy.

 

[Chris152]

Have to say, this sycamore's tearing out like it was cut from a scaffolding plank...

 

[Chris152]

I just gave up trying to get a decent finish on the first blank I cut - the tearout was terrible, way worse than I had with the blanks I bought. The wood seems really soft and shreds of it can be torn away from the un-planed side, and something similar was happening sometimes when turning with the (sharp) gouge. Do you think this is just an unusually soft piece of sapwood? I'm happy to blame user error, of course, but I've tried everything that worked on the other bowls I've done and it really hasn't improved it much.

OR - am I trying to turn the bowl the wrong way?! I tried to turn it so the rim/ top was at the bottom in this photo:

Is the mistake following the rings/ grain of the wood?

 

[CHJ]

Orientation does effect the finished appearance but variables are so great between subjects that orientation is only normally considered in relation to the figuring required and tool approach is adjusted to accommodate.

Sealing the wood surface with sanding sealer as you go could help considerably in this case.

Afraid you may be answering some of your original question "How come bowl blanks cost so much?"

Selection of wood stock in the first instance is an acquired art and something that only comes with time and experience to suit your methods and needs.