Honing planes and chisels cheap?

[Peter G Denmark]

Hello.

Can anyone recommend some cheap-ish sharpening stones, and recommend which grits to get? I live in Sweden, so it has to be an online store, that ships to the rest of the EU.

I have a 2 sided Norton India oil stone (think it's 250 and 600 grit), a second hand Scheppach Tiger 2000 wetstone grinder that i paid £20 for, and "green soap" honing compound. Also i recently went to a company that sells granite counter tops, and found a piece that was 40x400x450mm, which is flat.

The problem i have with these things are:

- The wetgrinder's wheel doesn't run 100% true, and a truing tool costs £50 (Tormek). I've tried to true it up with a diamond dressing tool with some succes, but it is not spot on. Even if i buy the truing tool, i still think the step from the stone to the lapping wheel is a little big, in that it looks like i'm kind of polishing scratch marks, and therefore not leaving a super fine edge.
- The India stone is a little small when it comes to sharpening jointer plane blades, and it's pretty coarse.
- Sandpaper on the granite wears out really fast, and the 3M lapping film is very expensive, especially when i have to pay shipping.

I can sharpen my chisels and plane irons to a pretty decent edge with these tools, but they just don't produce the results i know you can get.

So - what should i get. I've been thinking about the EZE-LAP diamond stones (http://fine-tools.com/ezelap-diasharpener.html) in a 250, 600 and 1200 grit, and then stropping on a piece of mdf with the green soap or Autosol. That would be about £150 for the lot - still a little expensive, but WAAAAY cheaper than the water stone route. What do you think?

Also - i've recently gotten 8 wooden handplanes, and i need to flatten the back of the blades. Has anybody used and beltsander for this? I'm SICK of spending 1 hour on every blade, so would love the power tool thing, for the initial flattening. Of course i would be carefull not to overheat (dipping in water etc'), but in my view the back of the blade is a lot less likely to overheat, since you're not grinding on a small area, like when you grind on a bevel. Or do you have any other suggestions?

BTW - a magnetic base, like the ones on dial calipers are great at holding plane blades when flattening the back. At £10 from axminster it was a steal when considering how much fingerpain it has saved me, and the pressure is distributed very evenly .

Thanks - and foregive my english. It's not my first language.

 

[carlb40]

Hi Peter.

Not sure if you have seen this?

flattening-chisel-backs-with-lapping-film-t68506.html

It might be worth a read before any more questions are asked/ answered.

 

[Jacob]

Can anyone recommend some cheap-ish sharpening stones, and recommend which grits to get? I live in Sweden, so it has to be an online store, that ships to the rest of the EU.

Coarse, fine and finer oil stones are cheapest by far. Last for life in fact. All you ever need. I've neve tried water stones but they get a very bad press and I don't think I'll bother.

........

- The wetgrinder's wheel doesn't run 100% true, and a truing tool costs £50 (Tormek).

Put it on ebay you don't need it

- The India stone is a little small when it comes to sharpening jointer plane blades, and it's pretty coarse.

Getter a finer one. Size doesn't matter you just skew the blade and move it about a bit.

- Sandpaper on the granite wears out really fast, and the 3M lapping film is very expensive, especially when i have to pay shipping.

Not necessary. Waste of money.

....

So - what should i get. I've been thinking about the EZE-LAP diamond stones (http://fine-tools.com/ezelap-diasharpener.html) in a 250, 600 and 1200 grit, and then stropping on a piece of mdf with the green soap or Autosol. That would be about £150 for the lot - still a little expensive, but WAAAAY cheaper than the water stone route. What do you think?

I've got the 3 Eze lap plates and they are good but expensive. Could manage without them

Also - i've recently gotten 8 wooden handplanes, and i need to flatten the back of the blades. Has anybody used and beltsander for this?

For the bevel yes excellent, for the face absolutely not. NB you only need to flatten the few mm behind the edge to give a tight fit to the cap iron

.I......BTW - a magnetic base, like the ones on dial calipers are great at holding plane blades when flattening the back. At £10 from axminster it was a steal when considering how much fingerpain it has saved me, and the pressure is distributed very evenly ...

Home made holding devices are good. This works OK for me for the once only remedial work to a very rusty blade. Scrap of wood, nut & bolt and something for a handle (in this case a spare drawer knob, but anything would do):

Face first:

Then turn it for the bevel

 

[MIGNAL]

You don't have to go through all the grits to get a very sharp edge. I can go from a 100 grit wheel on a hand crank straight to a 8,000 G Waterstone and get an extremely sharp edge. It works because the Waterstone is used on just the very edge of the blade and waterstones cut fast. You can even use Jacobs convex bevel but working just the last 2 or 3 mm to the edge. That works because I've done it. You could probably use the same approach with the finest diamond although I've never tried a diamond stone. So you basically can get away with using two stones: a coarse (wheel or flat) and a fine stone. The coarse stone is also useful for chipped edges of course. Finish off with a strop and paste if you want the ultimate sharp edge.

 

[Peter G Denmark]

Thanks carlb40 and Jacob. Have read through half of the post you mentioned carl, but so far the discussion is more about how flat is flat enough, not so much the tools used. I will read the rest.

Jacob - can you provide a link to the stones you would recommend? Oil stones are expensive where i live, so would love to see where i can get them cheap? Also - what grits do the coarse, fine and finer compare to?

I do like the wet stone wheel sharpener, because it makes quick work of my axe sharpening - and those babies get some nasty nicks once in a while, that would be a pain to take out with a regular stone .

Cool little jig by the way - i will make one tomorrow.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

As you already have a Norton oilstone, one possibility is to find a fine grade oilstone to finish the edge on. A hard black or translucent Arkansas stone would be just the job. These are expensive (though not as expensive as a set of diamond stones), but as they are only used for the last polish, they last for a very long time (several lifetimes!) so you'd only have to buy it once. That would then give you coarse, medium (the Norton stone) and fine (the Arkansas stone). With the grinder and the strop, you'd have all the bases covered! (Inthe UK, Classic Hand Tools stock the translucent Arkansas stone.)

Don't worry too much about getting the wheel of the grinder absolutely true. If you get it pretty close, then you can judge your grinding and by applying a little more pressure on different parts of the edge of the tool being ground, even things up.

 

[Peter G Denmark]

As you already have a Norton oilstone, one possibility is to find a fine grade oilstone to finish the edge on. A hard black or translucent Arkansas stone would be just the job. These are expensive (though not as expensive as a set of diamond stones), but as they are only used for the last polish, they last for a very long time (several lifetimes!) so you'd only have to buy it once. That would then give you coarse, medium (the Norton stone) and fine (the Arkansas stone). With the grinder and the strop, you'd have all the bases covered! (Inthe UK, Classic Hand Tools stock the translucent Arkansas stone.)

Don't worry too much about getting the wheel of the grinder absolutely true. If you get it pretty close, then you can judge your grinding and by applying a little more pressure on different parts of the edge of the tool being ground, even things up.

Thanks .

£90 plus £15 shipping for the translucent Arkansas is pretty hardcore, but as you said, still cheaper than £150 including shipping, and if it will last me a lifetime, i guess it's worth it.

Regarding the wet grinder, it's stone is off center, so it goes up and down, which produces a slightly convex bevel. It's not a huge problem with planes, axes and chisels - but stil annoying.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I sorted my wet stone. The problem is that because of the speed involved, any thing you put near it just tracks the ellipse, or possibly the one flat. Get a devil stone wider than the wheel and mount it in a stand of some description - it needn't be complicated, but there needs to be some adjustment available - adjust so that the devil JUST contacts the wheel. Leave the wheel running for a couple of minutes, and when you hear no contact at all, adjust so that it just touches again. Repeat a few times, just make sure that there is no pressure or resistance involved and ..boom boom - one nicely running wheel. You cannot do this accurately with anything hand held.

 

[Jacob]

......
Jacob - can you provide a link to the stones you would recommend? Oil stones are expensive where i live, so would love to see where i can get them cheap?

Basic stone here at Tilgear. Their site isn't working too well and I couldn't see fine one but I think they have them too. They do Eze lap too.
But the best source is ebay, they come up all the time.

Also - what grits do the coarse, fine and finer compare to?

Don't know, but my fine is finer than the pink Norton

.....
Cool little jig by the way - i will make one tomorrow.

It's handy for once only rescue of a damaged or rusty blade because you can put a lot of energy into it - very fast with a coarse grit, or emery paper. But for normal sharpening I wouldn't use it, just hand held freehand etc

 

[Aled Dafis]

This is my approach

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFRJIAOGSJI

and would work out very cheap for you as you already have most of the kit
1. A means of grinding - Schepach.
2. A medium stone - substitute the finer side of your oilstone for my Diamond stone.
3. And you already have the green honing soap, that's all you need is a firm bit of leather - (old belt maybe?).

Cheers
Aled

 

[Mike Wingate]

After over 40 years of sharpening chisels, plane blades and turning tools, I have settled for a Tormek Supergrind 2000 system, EzeLap 203 x 76 mm stones in 250,400, 600 and 1200. and an 8000 ceramic stone 200 x 75, then 2 leather strops. One with oil and Flexicut gold, the other with oil and green chromium oxide powder. It works for me.

 

[Corneel]

I've neve tried water stones but they get a very bad press and I don't think I'll bother.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

You're funny Jacob.

Peter, waterstones don't get bad press at all. They are in fact perfectly suitable to sharpen your stones and loads of people like them. When you want cheap, you can get stones from the King brand, or Icebear brand pretty cheap. A 6000 grit stone is about 40 pounds at axminster.co.uk. A very fine translucent Arkansas is at least twice that amount and because it is a natural stone you really don't know what you buy exactly. Some are nice, other are way too coarse for the grade. And an Arkansas is certainly not finer or better then these 6000 waterstones.

Disadvantage of waterstones is the dishing problem . So you have to flatten them pretty often with wet and dry on a piece of thick glass or so. Maybe buy a diamond plate for this later on.

Overall, waterstones can be cheap too. They also can be expensive, there is just a huge variaty.

You allready have an oilstone, so I can understand when you want to continue that route. Mixing oil and waterstones in one sharpening regime isn't smart. But you really need a finer one then just your India stones.

Axminster also has a diamond dresser for your grinder at about 9 pound. Doesn't need to cost 50 pound either.

 

[Jacob]

I've neve tried water stones but they get a very bad press and I don't think I'll bother.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

You're funny Jacob.
......
Disadvantage of waterstones is the dishing problem . So you have to flatten them pretty often with wet and dry on a piece of thick glass or so. Maybe buy a diamond plate for this later on.......

Hmm, so if they need flattening so often (every few minutes according to one user) then surely they are less than ideal for, er, flattening? :lol: If you have to buy diamond to flatten them, why not just skip the water stone altogether and use the diamond instead, or the wet n dry?
If waterstones are better than daimond for flattening, then why not flatten the watertone, with another waterstone, then flatten that one with, er, another waterstone, and then....?

 

[Jelly]

Are you getting the results you want from your tools when you're actually working wood with them? you can obsess about perfecting an edge all you like, but the only real test is "is it functional, do i get the results i want?"

 

[Peter G Denmark]

Thank you all .

Peter, waterstones don't get bad press at all. They are in fact perfectly suitable to sharpen your stones and loads of people like them. When you want cheap, you can get stones from the King brand, or Icebear brand pretty cheap. A 6000 grit stone is about 40 pounds at axminster.co.uk. A very fine translucent Arkansas is at least twice that amount and because it is a natural stone you really don't know what you buy exactly. Some are nice, other are way too coarse for the grade. And an Arkansas is certainly not finer or better then these 6000 waterstones.

Disadvantage of waterstones is the dishing problem . So you have to flatten them pretty often with wet and dry on a piece of thick glass or so. Maybe buy a diamond plate for this later on.

Overall, waterstones can be cheap too. They also can be expensive, there is just a huge variaty.

You allready have an oilstone, so I can understand when you want to continue that route. Mixing oil and waterstones in one sharpening regime isn't smart. But you really need a finer one then just your India stones.

Axminster also has a diamond dresser for your grinder at about 9 pound. Doesn't need to cost 50 pound either.

I have a diamond dresser, but the thing is, as said before, that the wheel turns very slowly on the wetgrinder, so it's very hard to knock of high spots, without dipping in to the low spots. I will try to make a jig that i can attach to the tool rest, and put the diamond dresser on that, as recommended.

So the gist of what i hear you say is, that i have to get an extra fine stone.

I can get a 50x150mm hard Arkansas for £50, so i guess i'll give that a go - a bit smal, but i think it will be allright. And then see if i can find a good piece of hard leather.

Maybe in time i will get into the waterstone thing, but the idea of having to flatten pretty often is a minus.

Thank you, and happy sharpening.

Ps: This little jig looks great - think i wil give that a go for my planer knives: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... eGxrMUYqtM

 

[Peter G Denmark]

Are you getting the results you want from your tools when you're actually working wood with them? you can obsess about perfecting an edge all you like, but the only real test is "is it functional, do i get the results i want?"

I get what you are saying, but with that philosophy, none of us should have more than 4 chisels, a handsaw, a hand brace with a couple of bits, a square, some clamps and a Stanley no. 4.

I "feel" the difference between an allright sharpened tool, and a very sharp tool. Like a brand new tablesaw blade feels better the first week, even though it cuts ok week 4. It's more enjoyable for me to work with, and enjoyment is important for me in my shop.

That said. I have all of £35 invested in my sharpning setup, so i don't think im fussing, and if another £40 can take to where it goes from "allright" to "just right" that is a good investment in my book. And the headline of this post was "sharpning cheap", not "Throwing money out" .

Jacob: Tilgear only ships to the UK - they can't be persuaded otherwise.

 

[Corneel]

Do you sharpen with a jig? In that case, a narrow stone isn't usefull, because you can't skew the blade. Plane irons are from 50cm wide and upwards. When you sharpen freehand, you can skew the iron and a narrow stone is fine.

And yes, flattening the waterstones is a nuisance. But you get quickly used to it, and it isn't anything world chattering. Flattening them is a quick process. Oilstones get out of flat too, just slower, and are much harder work to get flat again.

Every sharpening system has its pros and cons. It's a matter of choosing a system which annoys you the least.

 

[GazPal]

If budget is a major consideration you can always move to the next size down in oil stone/diamond plate at 8" x 2" and move the iron across the stone using a figure of eight movement. This maximises stone usage and is more than capable of handling jointer plane irons. You're also less likely to have the stone suffer from dishing by using the above method, unless using sub 1/2" blades/irons and the technique is easily picked up with limited practise.

As Jacob suggests, you can consider investing in a hard Arkansas stone as your finishing stone. The hard black Arkansas I have provides a finer edge than extra fine diamond plates and - if cared for - will last a lifetime or two of hard use, so initial cost can be considered a potential saving in comparison to other options.

Oil stones aren't difficult to re-flatten, but used properly they seldom need working on. In comparison to water stones, the added step of drying and re-oiling blades/irons is non-existent, plus you're not clogging sinks with sharpening residue or adding to potential humidity issues through the presence of "water ponds".

 

[Corneel]

But your waste basket fills up with oily rags, you really should bring to a chemical waste disposal facillity instead of just dumping in the garbage. And your oilstones are slower. And even the finest of Arkansas stones (if you can find one) is still coarse compared to fine waterstones.

Like I wrote, it's always a compromise. It's what you like and can handle easilly in your shop. I don't see a reason for strive.

 

[Peter G Denmark]

Do you sharpen with a jig? In that case, a narrow stone isn't usefull, because you can't skew the blade. Plane irons are from 50cm wide and upwards. When you sharpen freehand, you can skew the iron and a narrow stone is fine.

And yes, flattening the waterstones is a nuisance. But you get quickly used to it, and it isn't anything world chattering. Flattening them is a quick process. Oilstones get out of flat too, just slower, and are much harder work to get flat again.

Every sharpening system has its pros and cons. It's a matter of choosing a system which annoys you the least.

Thank you for the heads up.

I do sometimes use a little cheap Faithfull brand jig with the single wheel for my chisels, and i realize the narrower stone won't work 100% effeciently with this. That said - my wetstone wheel isn't a wide as my plane blades either, so you compensate by moving the iron back and forth. The same can be done with the jig on an narrow stone.
Also - just clamping the oilstone and a board of the same thickness side by side works. Then you just work perpendicular on the stone.

But i'm freehanding most of the time anyway, so it will be fine.

Regarding chemicals and invironmental issues with oil on rags, i use organic baby oil, i wash my rags and get silky smooth hands .

The thing with water stones is, that if you buy the cheap ones, they are more porous, and therefore needs flattening more often. If i have to flatten often, i need a lapping plate with diamonds, since sandpaper on grainte would get expensive (and messy) fast, which would defeat the purpose of getting a cheap stone.

I would love the expensive water stones, but i'm going for cheap and durable.