Hock plane irons

[Racers]

Hi, andy

You must check out James Krenov books http://jameskrenov.com/they will change the way you think about woodworking, get A cabinetmakers Notebook, The Fine Art of Cabinetmaking and The Impractical Cabinetmaker.


Pete

 

[Benchwayze]

I agree with Pete.

But I suspect Andy is already half-way there in his approach and feel for working in wood.

It also occurred to me.

Andy, you might also enjoy Alan Peters's

'Cabinetmaking;The Professional Approach'

John

 

[andyavast]

I also own all of James Krenovs books

Thanks though Pete

I actually recommend his books to everyone I know! When I say anyone I mean people who are that way inclined. I reckon if someone was to read his books and NOT get anything from them I'd question their sanity! His writing style is so story-like and easy to read in my opinion, I thought it was like Steinbeck on wood. Thats just me though.

The Alan Peters book is one that I have been meaning to get for a while John
I'll put it at the top of my 'to-buy' list.

It's one proper long list!

andy

 

[Benchwayze]

Hi Andy,

I think you will find the Alan Peters book at www.abebooks.co.uk , but when you see the price you might want to go for paperback, if there is one !

look here

The American estimates on value for older books are usually way high!
Good Luck in your search for that.

Regards
John

 

[Oryxdesign]

Keep it up Andy, your skills will be in high demand in the future. Your employer is lucky to have someone with such great enthusiasm, it's a shame they aren't nurturing it.

 

[andyavast]

Gee, thanks oryx. I don't often get encouragement like this... I'm a little unaccustomed to it. I definitely do not intend to give up!

CRIKEY! That is a lot for a book, but that is the cheapest I can find it. I'll maybe keep looking and see if I can't get it cheaper anywhere else.

Andy

 

[Benchwayze]

Andy,
Whehn friends and relatives ask what you would like for Christmas etc.. Just say 'Oh a few quid!' You'll soon have enough to flash the plastic for that book!

Hope you manage it. It's a great read, and worthy of a place in any woodworker's library.

But don't forget Edward Barnsley either!
Regards
John

 

[bugbear]

Gee, thanks oryx. I don't often get encouragement like this... I'm a little unaccustomed to it. I definitely do not intend to give up!

CRIKEY! That is a lot for a book, but that is the cheapest I can find it. I'll maybe keep looking and see if I can't get it cheaper anywhere else.

Andy

Yes; I tried bookfinder (which searches vendors other than ABE) but nothing cheap.

http://www.bookfinder.com/

Library time, I think.

Norfolk and Suffolk don't have it, but Essex did, when I looked. Which indicates (at least) that libraries DO buy it.

Hmm. Anyone know the relationship between:

Cabinetmaking: The Professional Approach,

# Publisher: Scribner (Jun 1986)
# Language English
# ISBN-10: 0025962000
# ISBN-13: 978-0025962002

and:

Cabinet Making:

# Publisher: Stobart Davies Ltd (February 1985)
# Language: English
# ISBN-10: 085442024X
# ISBN-13: 978-0854420247

both by Alan Peters ?

BugBear

 

[Benchwayze]

I can't help there BB.
I have the Hardback, the later book, but I never heard of the other. Maybe it's two different titles for the same book.
I don't really know who to ask to find out..
I find mine is the Stobart Davies publication, but it is 'The Proffesional Approah' title.

I wish I could say I will sell mine, but I know if I do, I would regret it later.

Regards
John

 

[mr]

Rumour has it that the Alan Peters book is being reprinted this year, so I would keep your powder dry on that front for the time being .


http://www.davidcharlesworth.com/bl...i=32&m=5&y=2008&d=1&s=&title=Alan+Peters+Book

cheers Mike

 

[bugbear]

Rumour has it that the Alan Peters book is being reprinted this year, so I would keep your powder dry on that front for the time being .


http://www.davidcharlesworth.com/bl...i=32&m=5&y=2008&d=1&s=&title=Alan+Peters+Book

cheers Mike

At the very least, it sounds like paying over 20 quid for it s/h would be "premature".

BugBear

 

[Benchwayze]

Well, I wasn't going to sell mine anyhow!
Strangely, collectors who want the original version would still pay £40.00 plus, depending on condition.

Daft I call it.


But if I ever ugently need £40.00, I know what to do!

John

 

[Joe]

On the subject of book recommendations, I'm reading Richard Sennett's "The Craftsman" at the moment, which is fascinating I think. It is discusses why craft in general is a rewarding and important activity, and how we develop the necessary skills to carry it out (apparently it takes 10,000 hours of practise to become an expert at anything, regardless of the field).

Joel

 

[Benchwayze]

Hi Joe,

That sounds like an interesting book, but, 10,000 hours? I wonder where that figure came from? That's about 3.42 years of eight-hour working days.

I was always led to believe that 5 years was nearer the mark. Not constantly doing a particular job, but employment in a particular field required five years of experience and practice, to qualify one as an expert.

The practice of woodwork for instance, covers a staggering amount of 'tasks and procedures'. I would think even five years wouldn't be enough.

I've been at it since I was 11 years old and I am still learning. Wouldn't call myself an expert, when compared to some of the professionals on this forum for instance. I shall have to try the library for this book and have a delve!
Thanks for the info

Regards
John

 

[bugbear]

On the subject of book recommendations, I'm reading Richard Sennett's "The Craftsman" at the moment, which is fascinating I think. It is discusses why craft in general is a rewarding and important activity, and how we develop the necessary skills to carry it out (apparently it takes 10,000 hours of practise to become an expert at anything, regardless of the field).

Joel

I didn't agree with him...

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/view ... hp?t=22263

disclaimer: I've read reviews, and some of his online stuff, but not the book.

BugBear

 

[Joe]

Ah, a controversial subject I see. Sennett quotes Daniel Levitin's "This is Your Brain on Music" as his source for the 10,000 hours figure, saying:

This seemingly huge time span represents how long researchers estimate it takes for complex skills to become so deeply ingrained that these have become readily available, tacit knowledge.

If you watch someone like Frank Klausz at work I think you can see exactly what this definition an"expert" looks like in practice.

Joel

 

[bugbear]

If you watch someone like Frank Klausz at work I think you can see exactly what this definition an"expert" looks like in practice.

Joel

Indeed. At the risk of topic drift, I am far from convinced that someone with this level of skill is desirable in a teacher.

Surely to teach someone you need to be consciously aware of the technique, in order to express it for someone else.

Being able to use a skill unconsciously would seem directly opposed to this.

BugBear

 

[Joe]

Indeed. At the risk of topic drift, I am far from convinced that someone with this level of skill is desirable in a teacher.

Surely to teach someone you need to be consciously aware of the technique, in order to express it for someone else.

Being able to use a skill unconsciously would seem directly opposed to this.

BugBear

Yes, and this is in fact one of the issues that Sennett discusses - he mentions the failure of 17th century master violin makers (such as Antonio Stradivari) to pass on the full extent of their skills to the next generation. He then goes on to talk about different methods of teaching, contrasting "dead denotation" with "expressive instructions" such as "instructions through metaphor". An example of the latter would, I think, be Rob Cosman using his baby son (that man has so many children) in his dovetail-saw video, where he recommends gripping the saw like you would a baby's hand.

This is all highly relevant to Hock plane irons of course.

Joel

 

[andyavast]

I find it fascinating to see a thread evolve like this! It sort of becomes conversational.

 

[bugbear]

An example of the latter would, I think, be Rob Cosman using his baby son (that man has so many children) in his dovetail-saw video, where he recommends gripping the saw like you would a baby's hand.

Of course such a metaphor, to be of use, requires common experience.

BugBear (happily childless)