Hiring shop space for ameteur use

[Mikey R]

Hi,

Ive been into woodworking for about 18 months now. Ive got a few projects planned, and I would like to expand my tool collection and get some larger stationary tools.

Im nearing completion of my first solid body guitar, and a few friends have been interested in me building them their own instruments. I love the idea of eventually doing this professionally but Im a few years away from that!

However, I live in a very quiet residential area, and I dont have any permanent space so Im mostly forced into working outside in the yard. So Ive been thinking of hiring out some commercial workshop space, but initially for ameteur use. It would eat into the monthly slope budget but would allow me to actually do some real work!

Ive found a commercial area run by the council that has some empty units, Im going to give the council a call tomorrow and see if I can get a quote. If I need to buy a lease then the idea is not going to work, but if they have a monthly arrangement then it might work.

Up until now, Ive been mostly taking a hand tool approach, partly due to necessisty as they are a little quieter, and partly because I prefer working that way. I also use a router, jigsaw and cordless drill. So my first project in a permanent shop would be a decent bench. I would also really like a pillar drill, band saw and possibly a belt sander.

Does this sound like madness? Does anyone else do this, and have you found it unnecessarily expensive?

 

[DMD]

Council premises to be avoided, seem to have no idea or real worth and not forgiving if you fall behind in rent even temporarily. Things like putting in extra sockets etc need an expensive survey. Dont spend too much time on benches etc, advertise for what you need, motto is 'what you want is in somebodys garage being unused and so bargains are there' start making cash right away, repairs etc

 

[jammie*dodger]

You'd be better off renting a garage or two in a local block. Just make sure they are nice and secure.

Rob.

 

[MIGNAL]

It's a difficult one. All sorts of costs can come into play that make it prohibitively expensive. On the other hand using the local available garage is cheap but may not be suitable in terms of security, heating, damp.

 

[patl]

I think it very much depends on the council. My sister's an artist who works out of a council owned and (I think) collectively run, 'art space' in sheffield, and I know there's at least one wood worker in that building. You'd just need to be able to put up with sharing the building with artists.

P.

 

[OPJ]

You'd be better off renting a garage or two in a local block. Just make sure they are nice and secure.

Rob.

I like the idea of having two - one for you to work in, the other to store all your wood!!

 

[quickthorn]

I think the artists space idea might be good. I've seen a few craft centres here and there that rent out small units that might be suitable.

I've had bad experiences renting a unit from a council, although this was designed for a small business. You would probably have to sign up for 12 months min. The rent they are advertised at do not include business rates, which I'd imagine you would have to pay as well.

A garage might be good, if you had light/power, and it was secure.

Farmers sometimes rent out sheds or outbuildings,and they might be a little less vulnerable to break-ins.

 

[brianhabby]

Hi Mike,

I was in exactly the same situation as you a few years ago and found a garage to let. One of the things I particularly like is being able to leave a project part finished and come back to it with everything where I left it. Working at home out of my 8' x 6' shed and even smaller patio meant everything had to be packed away at the end of a session and dragged out again before re-commencing work.

And don't talk to me about the rain :evil:

If you can find a garage with power then that is definitely the way to go. Take your time looking and something will turn up. It might also be worth advertising for one as many people who have a suitable place might not have thought of renting it out.

regards

Brian

 

[dickm]

See you're in "North Yorkshire". If it's the rural bit, might it be worth enquiring about redundant farm buildings? There's a lot of them around, and you might get a better, and less bureacratic, deal than from the council?

 

[Mikey R]

Thanks for all of the replies! You've definately given me some other options to consider. Its also nice to know other people have been in the same position as me.

First is the minimum lease - I wouldnt be able to sign up for 12 months, unless the rent was negligible. Then theres rates and so on - more expensive. I'll need to investigate.

An old barn would be ideal - but I would probably have to spend some money doing it up with damp proofing and so on, and definately paint the wall behind the bench white. Not so good when its only rented.

I liked the idea of commercial space because there would be no neighbours complaining about power tools on a Saturday morning, but that may still be an issue - there are houses and a caravan holiday park at the back of the council place. A barn probably wouldnt have this problem.

Of course, the other option is to move into a house with a garage, but that may not be possible either.

I'll need to do some research and some more looking. Cheers for the encouragement - its always needed!

 

[Mikey R]

I phoned the Council this lunchtime, and they will be selling the property in October and are not taking on more tenents.

I followed up by looking for other commercial properties, the only things I found were workshops more than 350 ft2 and serviced offices, both for much more than I was planning on spending each month. On top of this, there would likely be business rates.

I went looking for garages too, and didnt find any with lights and power - not surprising either, really.

Never mind, theres still barns and garages to be found out in the villages... something will turn up!

 

[clewlowm]

silly question mate. have you tried the gumtree website? i found my workshop on there, best of luck mike.

 

[Mattty]

Mike how much is your budget and where abouts in North Yorkshire are you? I know of a potential place in Ripon.

 

[Mikey R]

silly question mate. have you tried the gumtree website? i found my workshop on there, best of luck mike.

Ive not checked it for a while actually - theres nothing on there now, but I may post an advert.

Mike how much is your budget and where abouts in North Yorkshire are you? I know of a potential place in Ripon.

Im in York so not far from Ripon! To be honest Ive not really set a budget yet. I was hoping to get an idea of whats available before making a choice. I dont mind taking my time choosing the right place.

Talking of budgets, I'll likely have to wait till after August before getting started.

EDIT: Ive just checked on the map, and Ripon is a little further than I thought. Its a bit further than a Boddys trip :? Might be a bit far to pop out for an evening in the shop

 

[Mailman14]

Mikey R,

Have you tried freecycle? If you go via Yahoo, and look for a local group there may be other woodworkers interested in sharing / renting space? (Although they're not supposed to take money...)

The other way (which I've tried for down here) is to search the net for woodworking groups / classes, get to speak to the people in charge, and put your name out - show them a sample of what you've done (play on the "Only got persistance, and a few tools" line), maybe someone out there has a shed they don't use anymore, and a few powertools to use?

Good luck matey.

 

[Mikey R]

So lots has happened since last year, Ive become hapilly divorced, moved house and set up shop in the spare room! But even now Im starting to grow out of that 120 sq ft space, and Im very aware of the houses either side of mine so power tool use has to be kept to a minumum.

Im looking at a larger space on Saturday, that I think used to be a joiners shop. Now, since this space is for private, non commercial use, I have a couple of questions for the guys who've done this before:

* Will I need to pay any kind of rates, and what kind of lease will I likely be looking at? Do I need to prove that Im not charging for my work?

* Can I just lease out non commercial, non residential space, and what would my legal position be?

* Do I need to make sure the landlord actually owns the place?

The space is owned by a retired gent so I guess the monthly rent may be part of his retirement fund.

Cheers!
Mike

 

[Scrums]

Sorry Mike, not trying to hijack your thread....

...but if you were over on my side of the Pennines, I could have done something for you - I have 700 sq ft in use from 7am - 3.30pm, but all evenings and some weekend space are free and sitting there unused, fully kitted out. Perhaps an idea there somewhere for 'lone' full-timers to do a 'share/split' of their workshops ?

Chris.
.....a southerner in darkest deepest lancashire....

 

[Mikey R]

Sorry Mike, not trying to hijack your thread....

...but if you were over on my side of the Pennines, I could have done something for you - I have 700 sq ft in use from 7am - 3.30pm, but all evenings and some weekend space are free and sitting there unused, fully kitted out. Perhaps an idea there somewhere for 'lone' full-timers to do a 'share/split' of their workshops ?

Chris.
.....a southerner in darkest deepest lancashire....

Hi Chris, thats a fine plan! Unfortunately Ive got a maximum radius from York that Im happy to travel on an evening, having already travelled from West Yorkshire.

There is another bloke at my Archery club who also builds instruments, Ive been subtly suggesting a shop-share with him, lets see how that pans out. It will, however, be my name on the lease so Id like to find out where Id stand with that.

Mike, a Southerner in Yorkshire

p.s. Will I have to pay VAT on the rent? I guess the answer will be yes.

 

[wobblycogs]

I've only dabbled in commercial property rental but I would be surprised if you could get away without paying business rates which are, IMHO, extortionate. Leases are normally at least one year but there are a growing number of easy-in easy-out schemes which typically have 1 month notice to leave. As for going halves with a friend, get a signed agreement with your friend that he will pick up half the bill whether he uses the space or not. Friendships can quickly go south when money is involved and if your name is on the lease you have to pay. You also need to make sure your landlord is happy for you to essentially sub-let, most aren't. If you are thinking of buying a place (I have a few times) don't forget you will have to pay capital gains on it when you sell it.