help with dado blades

[trojan62]

hi all,
hopefully someone can help me with dado blades, i thought id ask a question about them, hope you dont mind.
i recentley bought an erbauer table saw from screwfix here in the uk. do you think i could get a dado set to fit it.
i know that dado sets are used a lot in the states but not so much here.
my table saw seems pretty good, but it would be very handy if i could use a dado.
regards
chris....

 

[newt]

hi all,
hopefully someone can help me with dado blades, i thought id ask a question about them, hope you dont mind.
i recentley bought an erbauer table saw from screwfix here in the uk. do you think i could get a dado set to fit it.
i know that dado sets are used a lot in the states but not so much here.
my table saw seems pretty good, but it would be very handy if i could use a dado.
regards
chris....

I don't think any uk sourced saws have the capability to fit dado blades.

 

[katellwood]

If its this one

http://www.free-instruction-manuals.com ... 750258.pdf

With a saw of that size and weight I would not even try it far too dangerous. there is a great deal more inertia in a spinning dado blade as opposed to a thin saw blade and as such you would probably end up dancing round the workshop with it.

In addition I don't think the arbor is long enough to take a dado set and get the arbor nut and washer on.

If you are serious about using a dado set look for a second hand Wadkin ags

just my opinion

 

[Steve Maskery]

The short answer is NO.

The longer answer is that 1) the arbor is too short (deliberately, to stop you doing this), and 2) on such a lightweight saw there is a good chance that the 10 second braking time would be exceeded due to the extra mass of the blade. You have the added complication 3) of guarding.

Dado stacks take a lot of setting up and shimming, so even if used on a saw which IS designed to take them, it's usually a lot quicker to use a router and jig.

I have written, and filmed, plenty on the subject and nothing I have ever seen has led me to change my mind that the router is a better way for the home woody to cut housings.

Steve

 

[Bluekingfisher]

Steve, I am not challenging your expertise but i would disagree with you to a degree. I use a stacked dado quite frequently. I can obtain tigt/snug fitting housings every time. Cuting a housing I find is quicker with the dado head, even when shimming is required to obtain a tight joint. I find this to be particularly so when cutting across the grain on relatively narrow boards. It's also a lot less messy/dusty and suffers less from tear out.

 

[Steve Maskery]

Hi BK
Well each to his own, I guess I do agree that the end result is excellent, but then so too is it with a router.
What do you do about guarding, may I ask?
S

 

[Bluekingfisher]

Therein lies the compromise Steve, guarding is the only issue I feel, there can never be a complete guarantee on safety using the dado head, however being a grown man of sound mind and judgement I take full responsibilities for my actions.

I do not work with what is considered the traditional guard, instead I have a retractable ceiling mounted guard with DC hook up and home made splitter installed in a home made ZCI . The guard/unit was originally purchased with a floor mounted boom. However I found this more cumbersome and problematic than my current set up.

 

[Steve Maskery]

I would have thought that an overhead arrangement was about as good as it gets. Why is that a compromise? It's what I'll build when I next have a workshop.
I have several guards for differing situations. My main guard is mounted on a boom from the far right corner of the table. I also have a stand-alone guard which can be used in two different orientations, and I have a rip-fence-mounted guard for when I am using the dado head to cut rebates or grooves close to the edge, such as a cabinet side.

Horses for courses.
S

 

[Bluekingfisher]

Perhaps I am underselling myself when it comes to safety then? If i am brutally honest though, I have found myself working with the guard raised to allow better vision on the blade during some operations. However I find this more convenient for me. I have the original guard for the saw and although it is a relatively quick operation to install/remove it, and despite it being a transparent polycarbonate box it limits my view of what's going on at the cutting edge, so to speak.

My primary reason for removing the original was to allow me to carry out a wider range of joinery tasks on the tablesaw. I use it for a wide range of cutting, far more than justt ripping and cross cutting, where seeing exactly where the blade is cutting is less important. As you say, horses for courses but your point firmly taken and safety should be at the forefront of woodworking, especially when machinery is evident.

BTW, I was just looking at your DVD's or at least the previews and clips, very impressive!

 

[Steve Maskery]

Well the reason I'm not giving you a hard time ( ) is that it is clear that you do understand what risks you are taking, so nagging seems pointless. But a good guard (and most saws do not have a good guard, or at least, they don't have a guard that is good in all situations) allows you use the saw without making you feel that it is somehow in the way.

What operations are you doing where it is important that you see exactly where it is cutting? Surely, once your fence or jig is set, that's where it is going to cut and it can't cut anywhere else? Or am I missing something?

Thank you re the DVDs. The last one I did is all about dado sets, and I had a long, long chat with the local HSE man, so I do feel that I know what I'm talking about. On this subject, at least.
S

 

[Bluekingfisher]

Like I said not questioning your expertise at all. I was only chipping in with my two cents worth outlining the worth of the dado head. The initial enquirer (apologies in case you think we are high jacking your thread) was interested in the effectiveness of the dado.

I may be a little defensive towards my WW practices, however it have the impression from reading several threads on dado heads it is considered by some to be a henious offence punishable with liberal amounts of tutt, tutt, tutting. Fortunately it would appear we both have capacity to install stacked dados on our respective saws unlike Trojan62 who does not. I was merely clarifying the usefullness of a dado set should anyone else consider using one or before the "tutt, tutt, tutters chip in with another attack on us users of the dado. Some have even declared it illegal. I guess a little knowledge is sometimes worse than having none at all?? lol

I carry out the majority of my joinery work at the TS, whether it be rebating, trimming, mitreing or what ever, (dependant of dimensions of the work piece of course) I also use a cros cut sled quite a bit. I have thought for a while about adding a plexi glass guard, not only to protect me from the blade but also from flying debris and sawdust. I personally prefer to see the timber enter and exit the blade, otherwise I just feel I'm working blind. 8)

 

[Steve Maskery]

I don't there is much between us, BK, except perhaps the threshold of guarding.
But you are an experienced machinist and you very clearly do understand the risks. Without in any way wishing to belittle the OP, he is not experienced. If he were, he would not be asking the question. And many other people come to forums like this for help and advice precisely becasue they are not very experienced and are eager to learn. So I think it's important that the risks are clearly stated, because if their education has come from YouTube videos then there is a very good chance that they would get the idea that it's all hunky-dory and tickety-boo to use a dado head on any saw, with no guarding.
I would not want to be responsible for someone getting that impression here and neither, I suspect, would you.
I don't think we are at odds here, are we?
S

 

[Steve Maskery]

PS. FWIW, on my last DVD which deals with this in detail, I do actually point out that the end result is superb.
S

 

[waveman2010]

I'm sorry to hijack Chris's thread but would like to ask Steve something. My table saw came with a guard that is flimsy and in some instances downright dangerous as it sometimes prevent the work passing through the blade smoothly. I have removed it and adapted the riving knife so that it does not protrude above the blade and have made a number of jigs which incorporate a clear guard. I would like to construct some general purpose guards for a variety of situations. Do your table saw DVD's contain ideas for these?
Best wishes

Kevin

 

[Steve Maskery]

Hi Kevin
It sounds as if you have a very sound approach to using your machine, although I hope that in removing your guard you have replace it with something better, and not just when you are using jigs. I hope that doesn't sound patronising, it's not meant to.
Yes, indeed, my DVDs do contain details of the guards I use. Specifically, there is a stand-alone guard on WE3 which I use with my Ultimate Tablesaw Tenon Jig, there is a SUVA-style boom-guard on, IIRC, WE7 and a guard for use with dado heads on WE9 or 10, I can't remember which. I don't remember much at all at the moment, my brain is not working very well!
I'm not allowed to advertise on here, so I hope that this specific reply to a specific question, will not raise anyone's ire.
Cheers
Steve

 

[Steve Maskery]

Perhaps I should make it clear that I DO have a dado set and I DO use it, just not very often.
S

 

[Bluekingfisher]

Steve apologies for my delayed response. I was finished at work at 4pm, hence my apparent disappearance just prior to this time. Didn't want to be late for getting off early on a Friday.

I've been out in the wshop tonight finishing off a plane till, glad it's done. Anyway I wondered if I had left you hanging, so had to check it out. It seems I had, so apologies once again.

To answer the last question you put to me, the answer is, no, of course not. I would not wish to give the impression an unprotected dado was a safe means of operating or encourage usage on unsuitable machines. I would agree however the router is probably :-k the safer method, that said, an inexperienced user is just as much at risk with a large router used incorrectly. To make best use of the router, particularly for housing joints in this case, purpose made jigs are an neccesity, unless of course you enjoy fiddling about trying to line a straight edge up with corresponding lines on the mating part. I know I don't. By the time I mark out the housings, chuck the bit, clamp on a straight edge, clear the work bench, clamp the workpiece etc etc I could have the joints cut on the TS. I have several routers but to be honest not a fan of them. I just find them, bulky. fiddly, noisy, messy and I always seem to get entangled in the flex.

Perhaps I need to spend time and build that jig, I have seen many, just never taken the time to build one because, for me the TS and dado is the first port of call.

I actually have 4 dado sets, all of which have been shipped at various times over the years from the US to cater for the 5/8" arbour on my saw. If you were going to ask why I have 4 sets, I could ask why do guys have 5, 10, 20 routers?? I suppose because we like them and want to experiment with different styles. I keep one for rough work on particle board and MDF etc and one for working on veneered surfaces where tearout is important. Besides we all like our toys and we can't have too many of those.