Help me buy a tablesaw (subs £500)

[psycho_grizz]

I want to get a new tablesaw, but I'm swamped with what to get. Is cast iron tabletops really that nice? I'm thinking between getting a cheap one or pushing it as far as I can and be done with buying one at that. I can't have it too big but portability is not a factor. Ultimately it just has to cut.. Straight.

Is there something reasonable that:
- is belt driven as opposed to induction motor (heard these are quieter and better to maintain)
- good quality rip fence for straight cuts
- cast iron?
- enough horsepower but right now working mainly with SPF soft woods

Strictly a novice hobby woodworker but want something that'll keep me happy for ages and make me enjoy woodworking. My current site table saw is really stressful to use due to it unstraight nature

 

[Ed Bray]

Not sure you are correct reference the belt driven over induction. The two are not mutually exclusive. Induction motor will be better regardless of whether the drive is direct or by belt.

There are some bargains to be had provided you are prepared to travel a bit, I picked up a very nice 3hp 10" SIP Cabinet saw with great fence and extension tables for £650 but had to travel a round trip of 700 miles to get it. By the same token I sold my very nice little Kity 419 with sliding and extension tables as well as quite a few accessories for £250.

With your budget I would be looking for a nice second-hand table saw, there was a lovely little Startrite saw for sale on here a short while ago for £300 (I know as I bought the planer/thicknesser from the same ad) so you just need to be able to wait and travel and you will get something worthwhile.

 

[psycho_grizz]

Cheers, I'll have to give startrite a look

I keep reading that belt driven motors are more efficient and less dust gets trapped in the motor as opposed to induction ones. The other caveat I have is that I have a small car so picking one up is going to be a problem. I'll have to rely on a courier service

 

[Ed Bray]

What I meant was that Induction or Brush type motors can be belt driven, gear driven or direct drive, the type of motor is not defined by whether it is belt driven or not.

I have never seen anywhere where a brush motor would be preferred over an induction type other than for cost, size or weight reasons.

Brush motors are much noisier, less smooth and not as long lasting, hence why induction motors are usually preferred, still each to their own.

 

[psycho_grizz]

Sorry I must've gotten something confused then. I think it is in American terms (where I'm getting most of my woodworking knowledge from) that site saws have the arbor directly connected to the motor whereas cabinet maker saws have the arbor driven by a belt hence a smoother operation?

 

[fluffflinger]

I preach patience and perseverence.

My SIP 01332, including sliding carriage, cost me £350, found it on Friday Ad and I had it delivered on a pallet for £40 but it took a year of looking! Likewise my Fobco Star Pillar Drill cost under £100 but took months to unearth. The internet is a great thing and it does comprise of more than just Ebay.

There are still bargains out there it just takes time to unearth the real treasure.

My only other word of advice, if you are in the game for the long haul is just buy the best you can and hopefully that will be all you will ever need.

 

[Myfordman]

Sorry I must've gotten something confused then. I think it is in American terms (where I'm getting most of my woodworking knowledge from) that site saws have the arbor directly connected to the motor whereas cabinet maker saws have the arbor driven by a belt hence a smoother operation?

In the US, a 2 pole motor will run around 3500 rpm which is just about right of a 12" blade directly mounted on the motor.
However this is no good for UK where direct drive on an induction motor will be too slow at 2850rpm.

So UK, belt drive and induction motor will be the best option to look for. An added bonus for belt drive is a greater depth of cut for a given blade size as the radius of the driven pulley will be smaller than the radius of the motor to be accommodated under the table.

 

[heimlaga]

Some thoughts and oppinions of mine:

For that amount of money you could get a fine secondhand cabinet saw with induction motor and cast iron table and all. Though they often cost a bit more so you will have so look around for a while before you find it. Rapid and Ejca are two very good European brands of compact cabinet saws.
Good quality woodworking machines may turn up very cheap at times. In my oppinion people tend to loose some money every time they sell a machine and buy a better one so I suggest that you buy the best quality secondhand saw you can afford with the greatest capacity that will fit into the space limit for a table saw in your shop and then you will have a saw for a lifetime.

Age alone is not an issue on a good quality woodworking machine but one has to keep in mind that the older the machine is the greater is the likelyhood that one might have to make some replacement parts or do some safety upgrades to the guards or the electrical system. Factory made replacement parts tend to become hard to find after a decade or two so most parts have to be made at home or rdered from local machinists.
One always have to weigh ones abilities against the money saved on an old machine in not so good condition. My "new" table saw was made in 1885 and had spent the last 30 years outdoors abandoned behind a barn. I have a huge lot of safety upgrades and a few minor repairs to do before I can put it into use. On the other hand it costed me 20 euros (some 12 or 15 pounds) for a high quality cast iron machine so the saved money balances the extra work. Someone who is less skilled with metal fabrication and does not have machinists and electricians among his friends should not buy a saw in that prize range.

I personally think that a belt driven saw is a little bit superrior to a direct driven one. Part because a replacement arbour for a belt driven saw is much easier to make if disaster strikes in a distant future. Part because you usually get more cutting depth from the same size blade.
Induction motors are better than brush motors and three phase is far superrior to single phase but where you live you will probable have access only to single phase.
The more cast iron there is in a saw the better it is....but the more diifficult it is to move around and the older it is likely to be. Again a matter of pros and cons.

In my oppinion an overarm guard is much better than a guard fitted to the top of the riving knife. To me it feels safer and in my way of working it interferes less with the job. A guard that interferes too much with the work tends to get removed and lost and does not protect anyone after that. In my oppinion riving knife should not to protrude above the top of the blade. It is maybe not fully legal but cutting down a too high riving knife is an easy and cheap safety upgrade. This makes it possible to make threnching cuts without removing the riving knife. Riving knives that must be removed for various cuts tend to be missing when they are most needed....and a removed safety feature does not protect anyone.
I know theese oppinions on safety are a bit controversial but to me actual safety while working is more important than the kind of nominal safety that exists on paper. Theese are just personal oppinions so take than for what they are.

A small sideline to this discussion:
There are plenty of direct driven saws on the European market too. After all their speed is still higher than the arbour speed of many elderly saws built in the era of carbon steel blades. The table saw on my combination machine runs att approximately 2000 rpm which is on the low side for a 16 inch blade. That was the correct speed for the carbon steel blades that were on the market back in 1957. It works pretty well anyway. Probably because the 3,7 kW three phase motor is strong enough to handle the extra load caused by the low cutting speed. Most elderly saws run a bit too slow for the carbide tipped blades of today but if the motor is strong enough there is no need to worry in my oppinion.

Good luck whatever you choose to do!