Help design my dining table.

[MikeG.]

Possibly later this year I want to build a big pedestal dining table and 10 chairs, in oak. The ensemble is to be in a Jacobean/ Tudor/ whatever sort-of style. I'm happy with the chairs, but I can't make up my mind on the pedestal design. Here are some of the options I am contemplating:

The criteria I am looking at include not having a single post in the middle so that those sitting at the ends of the table can put their feet on the foot. Before you get too excited, option E is not turned, but cut out with 4 "flat" identical faces. Options F and G have stopped chamfers, possibly aggressive enough that the bulk of the legs are octagonal, and the cross bar could be either pegged or through tenoned into them.

So, whaddya think? Which one should I go for, or what would you change on any of the choices? If you don't like any, I've got approx 20 others to choose from......

 

[woodbloke66]

Unless I'm missing something Mike, the end elevations on A,B,C & D all look to be the same? - Rob

 

[MikeG.]

Unless I'm missing something Mike, the end elevations on A,B,C & D all look to be the same? - Rob

..........yeah, you're missing something Rob..... :lol:

 

[Droogs]

@ woodbloke66 the top of the leg arcs are different

My choice is B

 

[Fitzroy]

B from the top row, or F also has a nice balance.

 

[Grawschbags]

B or D gets my vote, purely on aesthetics.

 

[Marineboy]

Any of A to D. Perfect mix of traditional look with a modern twist.

 

[woodbloke66]

Unless I'm missing something Mike, the end elevations on A,B,C & D all look to be the same? - Rob

..........yeah, you're missing something Rob..... :lol:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:...need to go to Specsavers :lol: - Rob

 

[Bm101]

I like D. I think I might reverse the arc of the smaller curve (the one that is the same in all A - D designs) so that it flatters the curve on the underside of the table top. Either solid or as a curved framing brace type affair to echo the house.

 

[galleywood]

+1 for D.
When does the 'vote' close?
How much weight will the votes carry when you make your decision?
WIP please.

 

[MikeG.]

+1 for D.
When does the 'vote' close?
How much weight will the votes carry when you make your decision?

Vote closes when I start work on the project. I'm actually as interested in the comments as the votes, although it is interesting that most people seem to be favouring the curved stuff in the top row (ie not classic Jacobean/ Tudor).

WIP please.

You can rely on that.

 

[MikeG.]

If it helps get the picture of the overall feel I am after, here is the current state of play with the chairs:

The dentil-like design at the top rail is actually likely to be a thumbnail carving as per the seat-support rails, but I got lazy with my drawing.

 

[lurker]

D for me too.
Dont like the latter three at all.

 

[custard]

One guideline for chairs is that they're an awful lot easier to use if they're 5kg or less, in particular children, infirm or elderly users find it more difficult to move their chair inboard of the table as the chair's weight increases. Made from Oak I think these chairs will be well over this guideline.

If your diners are all hale and hearty then of course this is a non-issue, but I thought I'd flag it in case they're not. There's a restaurant near me that has this style of chair throughout, it also attracts an older clientele. Not a good combination as the waiters are run ragged helping the diners move their chairs in and out every time they want to get up or sit back down.

Another point. The table designs (apart from maybe E) look like they're solidly in the gothic revival tradition, so mainstream Arts and Crafts. But the chairs are different in that they look like the *******ised "Jacobethan" designs that were popular during the inter war period. Add in some barley twist turning and they'd be spot on!

It's not me who has to live with them so my opinion counts for nil, but I find they don't sit that well together.

And a final point, you can pick up large sets of very well made, 1930's "Jacobethan" Oak chairs, for an absolute song at local auctions or on Ebay. Making chairs always eat up loads more time than you expect, so that could save hundreds of hours of work. Especially as the chair seats should really slope down towards the back, if not the sitter will tend to slide out of them. That one change will add a lot of work and complicate the build quite a lot. This will be especially so in this case as you'll likely end up with cushions on them for comfort, and cushions are even slippier!

 

[katellwood]

The issue I would have with D is that the A frame that is formed by the legs, at the top there is a likelihood that the top joint would be prone to opening up through shrinkage ( a bit like the internal corner of an architrave mitre can open up if the timber shrinks) and form a tapered gap

The same could be said for G

 

[Yojevol]

Mike, I'm just wondering what any of the designs will look like from the other elevation. From the end view the legs look massively strong, but from the side they may appear as connected by only the 'thin' tabletop. Visible side rails might enhance the overall apparent strength of the structure. Can you do 3D modelling to play around with this aspect?
Brian

 

[Sheffield Tony]

With a total disregard for any historical context (as I am largely ignorant in the history department), I would put in a vote for G, purely because I see straight lines and stopped chamfers on the chairs, not sweeping curves.

Edited to add - I see Custard comments on the weight of the chairs. I assume you have a crane standing by for the table, if it is that solid and big enough to seat 10 !

 

[MikeG.]

Mike, I'm just wondering what any of the designs will look like from the other elevation. From the end view the legs look massively strong, but from the side they may appear as connected by only the 'thin' tabletop. Visible side rails might enhance the overall apparent strength of the structure. Can you do 3D modelling to play around with this aspect?
Brian

Originally tables were boards mounted on trestles, and were taken apart and cleared away after a meal. The solid rail thing developed after that. There will be visible rails, but they will be "flat" rather than standing on edge. They'll probably show about 50mm, and with the 40mm of the top, 90mm should be enough visual thickness I reckon. Ignore the stretcher and arched brace, which was from a previous trestle design, this is a side view:

 

[MikeG.]

...... I assume you have a crane standing by for the table, if it is that solid and big enough to seat 10 !

The table will seat 8 ordinarily (2400 x 1050), but there will be an extension leaf for one end for christmas, when seating 10 is necessary, and it will all be knock-down. Remove the wedges and the stretcher will separate from the pedestals. The top will lift off (possibly retained with pegs, and the side rails will either be dovetailed or wedged into the pedestals. The top will be 40mm boards for the edges, but the middle boards will be 25mm ish (no shoulder on the underside of the breadboard ends)......but nonetheless, it is going to take two people to carry it in from the workshop.

 

[MikeG.]

One guideline for chairs is that they're an awful lot easier to use if they're 5kg or less, in particular children, infirm or elderly users find it more difficult to move their chair inboard of the table as the chair's weight increases. Made from Oak I think these chairs will be well over this guideline.

If your diners are all hale and hearty then of course this is a non-issue, but I thought I'd flag it in case they're not. There's a restaurant near me that has this style of chair throughout, it also attracts an older clientele. Not a good combination as the waiters are run ragged helping the diners move their chairs in and out every time they want to get up or sit back down.

One of the advantages we have at home as compared to a restaurant is that there is lots of space around the chairs. They therefore don't have to move very much, if at all, for someone to get in and out. I am deliberately looking for a heavier than normal chair, but I'll be doing my best to keep the weight down.

Another point. The table designs (apart from maybe E) look like they're solidly in the gothic revival tradition, so mainstream Arts and Crafts. But the chairs are different in that they look like the *******ised "Jacobethan" designs that were popular during the inter war period. Add in some barley twist turning and they'd be spot on!

This is a fair critique of the table, but perhaps a little unfair to the chairs. It is true that they are a cleaned-up version of an authentic 17th century chair. Vertical rather than angled backs would be a step too far for most people, but retaining the flat seat and the vertical lower leg, as well as decorating the front but not the rear legs reassures me, (at least!) that this is more Jacobean than the interwar chairs to which you refer. I'd also say that padded tapestry upholstery to the back and seat will soften the look from those early 20th century chairs.

It's not me who has to live with them so my opinion counts for nil, but I find they don't sit that well together.

I value your opinion, but don't agree with you on this.

And a final point, you can pick up large sets of very well made, 1930's "Jacobethan" Oak chairs, for an absolute song at local auctions or on Ebay. Making chairs always eat up loads more time than you expect, so that could save hundreds of hours of work. Especially as the chair seats should really slope down towards the back, if not the sitter will tend to slide out of them. That one change will add a lot of work and complicate the build quite a lot. This will be especially so in this case as you'll likely end up with cushions on them for comfort, and cushions are even slippier!

We have flat-seated chairs around the kitchen table, and the cushions simply tie on. The problem is that simple to solve. I will be making a mock up in pine sometime soon, and will experiment with upholstery-nailing the cushion onto the seat, but otherwise a simple tie resolves the matter. And no, I'm going to build them. I've never seen an inter-war piece with a finish I like (and I hate barley twist, and most other turning, which will be very hard to avoid in buying second hand). I want a particular finish, and the chair finish to match the table finish. Besides, I want to sit at a dining suite I made entirely myself.