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Hammer K3 Slider - questions for owners

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Prizen

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Hi All

Looking at the relatively limited reviews on YT of the Hammer K3 sliding table saw, I see that one particular reviewer (preston hoffman) complains that the height of the sliding table is fractionally higher than the adjacent cast iron table (about 4 mins or so into the video). Therefore, when ripping against the rip fence on the cast iron top, the off-cut end of the workpiece rests on the slider and so preventing a square cut.

Is he using the saw incorrectly for ripping?

I take it that ripping could be done using the sliding table, with some clamps/jigs, but I cannot get to grips with how the real estate to the right-hand side of the blade could be next to useless?

Forgive the basic query, I have never used a sliding/panel saw before.

Also just out of interest, for owners of the K3, have you opted for the outrigger table? I don't have the space for it to be installed permanently, so would only go for it should the benefits be significant (I have a track saw to do the initial breakdown of sheet goods).

Thanks
 

LBCarpentry

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If it’s anything like my fielder KS 500 which it looks to be then it’s a great piece of kit. You rip on the right side there is no height difference he must have it set up wrong. Don’t worry about outfeed table. Just have some rollers. You won’t be disappointed!
 

Trevanion

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I've never gone around checking sliding tables with a dial but I've always assumed there was a very slight height difference of a couple of thousands of an inch or so, not really enough to affect a cut in any form. Having had a quick peep at Hoffman's video he mentions that when it arrived it was an 1/8" higher than the cast top which is extreme but the machine is simple enough to adjust and they do actually need to be adjusted from new anyway in it's final resting place, usually they're commissioned by Felder themselves on the more expensive saws but I can see them leaving it up to you on a cheaper machine.
 

Prizen

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Thanks, when I say outrigger, I mean the extension to the left hand side that attaches to the narrow sliding table. Sorry, I wasn't referring to outfeed table. I would say that this is standard on the Felder line, but with the Hammer K3, it looks as though the outrigger is optional?
 

Trevanion

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I'd opt for the outrigger, a very handy piece of equipment for just supporting the cut on odd stuff more than anything, not sure what the set-up is on the Hammer saws but on the Felder, it's about 20 seconds to put on and take off so that it's not in the way for more conventional cuts.
 

MikeK

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I have a Minimax SC2 Classic, and the sliding sled is supposed to be very slightly higher than the cast iron table. I think mine is 0.5mm. When I rip, what will become the offcut does ride on the sled, but the angle doesn't make any noticeable difference.

When I first started using the saw, I would rip about 5mm wider than I needed, then rip again at the final width so the piece was not resting on the sled for the last cut. I never noticed a difference in the angles of both cuts, so I stopped wasting my time and wood making two cuts.

As Trevanion wrote, the outrigger is very handy and it comes off easily when not needed. On my Minimax, the outrigger stores flat against the wall and the support beam for the outrigger folds flat against the saw.

Edited to correct my math.
 
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Prizen

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Mike, the SC2 is the other consideration. Have you any gripes with yours? There's simply a lot less feedback on the Minimax machines as opposed to Felder/ Hammer
 

MikeK

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Mike, the SC2 is the other consideration. Have you any gripes with yours? There's simply a lot less feedback on the Minimax machines as opposed to Felder/ Hammer
No gripes at all. I originally wanted the K3 Winner, but the lead time on it was horrendous because they are made to order. I had to make my own arrangements for shipping from the factory, assembly in my shop, and commissioning. The SC2 was in stock about 25KM from my house and was delivered the following week. The price included everything. I could have had it the same week I paid for it, but the SCM technician was on leave and wouldn't be back until the following week.

Either saw will be great. The advantage that the K3 had for me was the mobility kit. The saw was small enough that it could be moved out of the way if needed. The SC2 dropped anchor in my shop and hasn't moved since. However, I knew this when I bought it and designed my shop layout around the dust collection system and the SC2.
 

Doug B

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Hammer offer set up/commissioning as an option these days they didn’t years ago when I first bought from them, sounds like the reviewer you mention hadn’t commissioned his machine properly.
Can’t comment on the K3 but I’ve a B3 saw/spindle & if the two surfaces weren’t pretty spot on it would be very noticeable when using the spindle moulder function.
 

GeeBee62

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I installed a K3 winner just 4 weeks ago and it is spot on level across the surfaces. I am very pleased with the sliding table. I have the small outrigger (brill) although I also had doubts over its size. I went for the smallest and it is fantastic. I have just sawn the bottom off a door! I also have made a fritz and franze jig for cutting small pieces. I have my own attached extension table from a previous table saw. Quality is excellent. The holddown is a must. The web size photos and cost do it no justice for the price, but my God what a hold down! I have a small doubke garage with lots if big machines. This fits great, and all surfaces are flat. Self install.
 

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Prizen

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Thanks guys. Great photos GeeBee. I didn't realise that different size outrigger tables were available? I knew that different lengths of sliding table were available but I thought the outrigger was one size?
 

SamTheJarvis

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I set mine to the same height and use a thin-bottomed sled with a few strips of UHMW tape on the bottom for most cross-cutting. With the table waxed as it should be there's no drag. Being able to rely on rips being perfectly square adds a lot of peace of mind.
 

shed9

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I've had a K3 Winner for a number of years now. I would expect the sliding table to be slightly higher than the cast top (as mentioned above for the obvious reasons) but this is going to be nigh on impossible to notice so never bothered measuring it myself.

Solid bit of kit, never let me down. Mine came with a small (about 500m square) support piece that can fit to the left of the slider but it rarely gets used in my setup. Be mindful of the expanding outriggers, check the Hammer stats for what size envelope you need to make full use of it. Depending on what size you go for, it can eat room very quickly - that said, useful if you can fit it into your budget. Felder / Hammer will likely try to throw in some 'dubious' blades into the deal as opposed to knocking cash off the price of the main saw. Push for an outrigger in the deal at a reduced rate as this is more useful and doable in my opinion. Only reason I don't have an outrigger is I generally use a track saw to breakdown sheet and it fits my working method, if this was different I'd get an outrigger in a heartbeat.

For info, I modded mine quite extensively fitting an incra LS32 on the front which guides an incra fence in the standard format.

Superb saw although some things to note;

1. I've said it before but beware when entering the Felder / Hammer universe, you and your future generations will forever be on their mailing / xmas card / cold call list.
2. Be aware that the Hammer K3 has a little sliding selector under the slider which you move to remove the slide cover. This is a three position selector and you need to make sure it is set properly when you refit the cover, else the saw will safety-cut-out. Small thing but I know people who were out of action for weeks waiting for a fix that wasn't necessary (and no, it wasn't me).
3. Check the scoring blade options with Felder / Hammer, despite them selling a scoring module I'm not sure my model can retrofit it. It may be a fit than can only happen at purchase. Not sure on this one but worth having that conversation.
 

MikeK

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For info, I modded mine quite extensively fitting an incra LS32 on the front which guides an incra fence in the standard format.
I'm interested in seeing your setup if you have some photos. I installed the LS25 on mine to act as a second point so I can rip using the slider.

 

Ntre25

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I installed a K3 winner just 4 weeks ago and it is spot on level across the surfaces. I am very pleased with the sliding table. I have the small outrigger (brill) although I also had doubts over its size. I went for the smallest and it is fantastic. I have just sawn the bottom off a door! I also have made a fritz and franze jig for cutting small pieces. I have my own attached extension table from a previous table saw. Quality is excellent. The holddown is a must. The web size photos and cost do it no justice for the price, but my God what a hold down! I have a small doubke garage with lots if big machines. This fits great, and all surfaces are flat. Self install.
Is that the 1300mm sliding carriage? The sales rep says I should take the comfort package which has the 2000mm sliding carriage. A 2m sliding carriage is too big for my space. Did you have to start with the k3 winner in standard configuration and take everything else as an optional extra?
 

shed9

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I'm interested in seeing your setup if you have some photos. I installed the LS25 on mine to act as a second point so I can rip using the slider.
I will take a pic and put it up tomorrow when I get chance. How is your LS25 attached?


Also, you may want to get yourself on Felder / Hammer's mailing list. Seems they have supplied an upcoming woodworking TV series and the machines themselves are being sold off at a discount.
 

MikeK

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I will take a pic and put it up tomorrow when I get chance. How is your LS25 attached?


Also, you may want to get yourself on Felder / Hammer's mailing list. Seems they have supplied an upcoming woodworking TV series and the machines themselves are being sold off at a discount.
There are two pictures of my setup in the link I provided to another thread here. I have two quick-release auxiliary tables that attach to the side of the sled. I use one for stabilizing oversized sheet goods and the other for the LS25. The LS positioner is bolted to the end of one of the tables, then I aligned the fence so it was parallel to the side of the sled adjacent to the blade. I can remove and attach the table without disturbing the allignment.

Ever since my initial discussion with the Felder rep about the K3 five years ago, I've been on the mailing list. I can't shake them.
 

shed9

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Will check out the links MikeK and apologies, the suggestion to go on the mailing list was for the OP, should have been clear on that.
 

custard

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I use a Felder saw with a sliding table, but actually these same general principles apply to all sliding tables.

If you're chiefly using the sliding table to cut sheet goods, then you're best off with the sliding table slightly higher than the main table. Felder/Hammer recognise this and therefore the sliding tables are fully adjustable. Most workshops I know seem to set this gap at about 0.5mm, but I've seen gaps up to 3mm. This reason is that this makes it easier to transport "floppy" sheet goods like MDF across the saw. If you've ever ganged up a stack of say 20 hardboard sheets for cutting wardrobe backs then trust me, you'll really appreciate a gap that's towards the larger end of the spectrum! I understand some joiners who are using resinous softwoods, particularly if they're not always as well kilned as they might be, also prefer a larger gap.

On the other hand, if you mainly use your saw for hardwood furniture then you'll probably go for a smaller gap or even no gap at all (ie dead flush). However, note that the risks are asymmetric, in other words a tiny gap with a higher sliding table is no big deal, but the same tiny gap with the main table higher makes sawing difficult and is potentially dangerous. Furthermore, with very small gaps you're also into the zone of how flat are your tables? In other words you want a safety margin across the full travel of the slider and the full width of the table.

Consequently, even though I chiefly use kilned hardwoods, I have my sliding table 0.5mm higher than the fixed table and I'm a happy camper.

Hope that helps.
 

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