Hairline splits in end of maple board

[Chris152]

While initially scrub planing a board I noticed a couple of splits that run through (25 mm) the thickness of the board, about 25mm along the board starting at the end. Couple of questions -

How much should I cut off to be confident that the board won't continue to split (maybe a piece of string question? but any thoughts?);

What would have caused this? (It's kiln-dried maple.)

Thanks for any advice

Chris

 

[custard]

Don't worry about it, you often have to trim away a few inches from the end of the board, some makers do it as a matter of course not withstanding any splits in case there's grit embedded in the ends.

 

[Chris152]

Ok, thanks Custard - I'll cut off a couple of inches and hopefully that'll be sorted. Unfortunately I cut the board to two equal lengths to joint before I noticed, so I'll have to do the same to the other half. You live and learn, eh? (hammer)
edit - actually, the other end of the original board would need cutting back in the same way, based on your advice. So nothing lost, just something learned.

 

[Chris152]

Another maple question so thought I'd ask here - this seems to be bird's eye maple, but the eyes are turning out to be hollows?!

Can anyone tell me what's happening here, and what I could do about it?

Thanks

C

 

[Racers]

The grain in eyes changes direction so you can get tear out if your blades aren't sharp enough, are hand plaining or machine?

Pete

 

[Chris152]

I didn't know that, and it probably explains what's happened. What a horrible thought - I've effectively ripped the eyes out! I put it through a large Wadkin thicknesser that hadn't been used in some time - fortunately the worst of it is on the side that won't be looked at. I'll continue to hand plane and see if they return to normal.

Many thanks, Pete.

 

[Ttrees]

A few swipes with a hand plane which has the cap iron set correctly, will sort that tearout problem your having.

Back to the question.
I've heard the saying plenty of times now, but wondering if its recommended in this case....
To leave the wood as long, for as long as possible ?


And why not another related question for the crack aswell

It's common practice on instrument stock ..ie 2 to 4 mm thick, to flood the cracks with CA (very thin superglue)
For anyone who does this ...
Taking into account stresses in the timber, say the example is a straight grained piece with little runout and dry.
What's the maximum thickness of stock, you would expect this trick to work at ?

Thanks
Tom

 

[ED65]

I'll continue to hand plane and see if they return to normal.

Some guidance on cap-iron settings if you need it about halfway down on this page:
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/roug ... 63-15.html

 

[Chris152]

Thanks both.

I've gone back over the top face with a No4 and cap iron set close and the birds now have their eyes back.

The problem arose after putting through a thicknesser, but out of interest - how far can setting the cap close help when using a scrub plane? I've been setting it as close as possible but it's hard to know where to stop. A nasty breakout when using the plane can easily add another couple of mm to be removed across a board, so it needs to be kept to a minimum but that then seems to reduce how much you can remove in each pass, and thicknessing becomes a really lengthy ordeal?

Also - also just out of interest - do you work the underside/ not visible parts of furniture to the same finish as the top/ visible parts? I seem to recall seeing older pieces of furniture (hand finished, not machined) with pretty rough surfaces where they're not on display. I quite like the idea of adopting that as an 'attitude' in my work, and it's something that maybe sets it apart from machine produced work? It exposes the making process which is too easily forgotten?

 

[PAC1]

Setting the cap iron close to the edge is for finishing difficult grain as you have seen. A scrub plane is for removing stock quickly so you would not want the cap iron set close. It would make more difficult. if you need something to stop tear out you could use the scrub plane to reduce to near the size and then swap to a No 5 with the cap iron set middling to dimension the timber and then finish with the No 4 or a No 5 set close.

The danger with not working or finishing the underside is that the wood may be more susceptible to cupping because you have exposed a new face by plaining it and not balanced it on the opposite face. The risk is worse if you finish the face but not the underside. modern homes with dry high temperatures add significantly to these risks.

 

[Chris152]

That's more or less what I've been doing PAC, but with the cap iron set normally on the scrub plane I've had nasty tearout a couple of times, to the point that it's made me remove more than I intended. I guess my scrub planing technique's the real issue, but just wondered if you could close the gap at all. Thanks.

Concerning the underside, I meant that the face would have finish applied in the same way as the top, but that the surface wouldn't be planed and levelled to the same extent. I particularly like the look that shallower passes with a scrub plane leave. It was just one of those idle thoughts....

 

[Droogs]

AS mentioned on the efficiency thread, most hand made pieces where the under surfaces are rougher are from a time when hand making was the norm and the professionals didn't "waste" time on what wouldn't be seen Where as amateurs like it all to be perfect.

 

[PAC1]

Have you got a toothed blade for your scrub plane? Sometimes these cause less tear out used across or angled to the grain. Sounds counter intuitive but I think it is because it breaks the grain rather than scooping out large pieces. Alternatively work the scrub plane across the grain.
The other reality is that with difficult grain you just have to plane more off with a close set very sharp plane taking lots of fine shavings.

 

[custard]

The problem arose after putting through a thicknesser, but out of interest - how far can setting the cap close help when using a scrub plane? I've been setting it as close as possible but it's hard to know where to stop. A nasty breakout when using the plane can easily add another couple of mm to be removed across a board, so it needs to be kept to a minimum but that then seems to reduce how much you can remove in each pass, and thicknessing becomes a really lengthy ordeal?

Also - also just out of interest - do you work the underside/ not visible parts of furniture to the same finish as the top/ visible parts? I seem to recall seeing older pieces of furniture (hand finished, not machined) with pretty rough surfaces where they're not on display. I quite like the idea of adopting that as an 'attitude' in my work, and it's something that maybe sets it apart from machine produced work? It exposes the making process which is too easily forgotten?

-If you look at antique furniture, prior to the widespread adoption of machinery, pretty much all the unpolished and hidden surfaces were left adzed, cleft, or scrubbed.

-When I think of a scrub plane I think of a single iron tool without a cap iron.

-A sure cure for planer/thicknesser tear out is a good quality spiral block...maybe one day! In the meantime I use slow feed speeds, sharp knives, and light cuts. If that's not enough I hone a minute back bevel on the machine planer knives, which almost always does the trick.

-You're right about the trade off between stock removal and closeness of the cap iron. I guess you could try shaping the cap iron, but it's not something I have first hand experience of. If I'm working on a highly figured board that's too wide to fit through my machinery (something I do fairly regularly) then I tend to identify the high spots, knock them off with a course set jack working diagonally across the grain, then move on to a closely set cap iron for final clean up and flattening. This is a waney edged Leadwood desk I did recently that fell into that category,

It had ripple figure and contrary grain, but this was all finished by hand with a closely set cap iron,

It's hard graft but it works!

 

[Ttrees]

What fantastic stuff Custard!
As per David W's videos and threads
You wouldn't be able to have a close set cap iron if your iron is noticeably cambered.
What your looking for is about a hair thickness of camber, just enough to not have planing tracks.
And the cap iron as close as you can get.
I have overshot the cap iron a few times, and I have not noticed much blunting if any.
So its not the end of the world if that happens
Good luck
Tom

 

[Chris152]

Thanks all.

I now have a toothing plane PAC, but got it for working finer, complex grain - it's a pretty dinky little thing - but did you mean to get a toothing blade and shape for scrubbing/ stock removal? Does anyone do that?

That's an astonishing piece of wood, Custard. When I write about 'complex/ difficult grain' I'm pretty sure it's bread and butter grain to an experienced professional - I wouldn't know where to begin with a board like that. I think I'd be reaching for the belt sander. I don't know how well it works, but when I was looking for a waney-edge board I noticed that Interesting Timbers have a new machine for processing such boards? I'm sure they'd still need finishing anyway.

Next time I'm in Axminster I'll take a look at the Veritas scrub plane, I'd not noticed it has no cap iron. Is it because the cap iron can't get close enough to do any good? I've been setting mine when grain gets tricky so only about half (the centre) was beyond the cap, and it seemed to make a bit of a difference but is much slower. That said, I'm not sure if it improved things.

Thanks again,

C

 

[Droogs]

Scrubs planes don use the cap iron it gets in the way of what t is meant to do. Also you don't shape a toothing blade other than have it nice an straight, It is not meant for hogging off lots of material. You use the scrub to hog it off and then use the toothing plane togive you a uniform and level (not smooth) the playingfield as it were. Once done then you use a scraper of some sort to get the finish you want.

 

[PAC1]

Chris this video shows what I had in mind https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KK8ZB29GS_c

 

[Chris152]

That's interesting. I wonder if his reason for using a toothing blade is to reduce tearout - it doesn't look like he's short of kit so guess he has a scrub plane. Could you put a camber on the iron and make it still more efficient/ less teary as a scrub plane?

 

[Racers]

A cambered toothing plane would leave different depths of groves which would be very difficult to remove with a cabinet scraper.

Pete