God Bless America

[andersonec]

Say's it all really.

Andy

 

[doctor Bob]

NRA speech yesterday was shocking ... but I expect a lot of Americans will lap it up.

 

[RogerS]

Say's it all really.

.......
Andy

Not really. if you look a bit deeper into the stats, the US is way way down the list compared to some other countries...like Brazil, Russia, El Salvador plus a whole host more. For example, Brazil 18 homicides per 100,000 of population. The US down at 4.

Not that I am condoning the recent shootings.

Now compare and contrast two places in the US. First up, Morton Grove, Illiinois. Passed a law forbidding anyone other than police to possess a handgun. Crime rate went up immediately after the ban, despite the population dropping slightly. As compared to Kennesaw, Georgia where they took the opposite stance and passed a law making it mandatory to own a gun (except felons, those with religious objections and people with disability (the latter can still own a gun should they so wish). 25 years later and there have been NO fatal shootings. No children have been injured in a shooting.

 

[Tinbasher]

Guns will always be part of American society.

I used to shoot pistol competitively, after becoming disabled I tried out a few sports while at Stoke Mandeville and found I was good at it. A few years later the Dunblane murders happened and soon after handguns were banned and I could no longer shoot. I was disappointed but believed it was a case of my hobby being less important than a safer society. Something like this could never happen in the USA they are wedded to their guns in way that is rare here.

Now older and hopefully wiser, the idea of owning what amounts to a tool for killing makes me uneasy but if I lived on a remote farm in the Highlands or in the wilds of America hours away from the nearest police. I might feel very differently.

I thought the NRA statement was mind bogglingly insensitive and crass. The statement that "the only protection from a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun" reminded me so much of the old adage. " If you only have a hammer, every problem looks like a nail". I think the danger is that if you rely only on guns, then every problem looks like a target.

 

[Jacob]

Might have known some twerp (Roger) would chip in with highly selective anti gun control arguments.
There are some more meaningful stats here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... death_rate and there are plenty more figures on the net.

 

[RogerS]

Might have known some twerp (Roger) would chip in with highly selective anti gun control arguments.
There are some more meaningful stats here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... death_rate and there are plenty more figures on the net.

Where do you think my stats came from, dingbat ? Suggest you read before knee-jerk.

 

[Travis]

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year

Travis

 

[gregmcateer]

First things first - My heart goes out to the parents and child witnesses of thie horrific act. How anyone gets over such a thing, I have no idea.

Wherever we stand on guns ownership, I can't quite see how an armed security guard in every school will prevent massacres - surely the baddy will walk up and say he's here to visit someone (especially easy if he is an ex-pupil, which to my knowledge they all have been) and the guard will say, "Yo there, Billy-Bob, nice to see y'all....." and in they go. Even assuming the guard is a tad more astute and asks to search them, the nutter, (and I assume we all agree these guys are nutters), will blast the guard and stroll right in.

Even assuming the above is incorrect, the armed guard scenario assumes the nutter will always come by the front gate and knock politely, that the guard is on the ball and said guard is also regularly trained and practised in the use of his or her weapon.

No idea of the statistics, but I understand that most US police never actually fire their weapons 'in anger', so guards keeping up the practice may be over-hopeful.

Just a few thoughts. Feel free to knock them down.

Gretg

 

[andersonec]

I would like to think the States are slightly more developed/educated/advanced than most of the the countries above it on the previously mentioned leader table (space travel, nuclear bombs etc) which in my language puts them at the top because they should know better,

Canada has similar gun laws but where are they on the list? you cannot say "if everybody had guns it would be safer" that is balderdash and Canada proves it, they want a gun so they can go out and shoot something that bleeds and dies, it has everything to do with the mentality of the people who own a gun, try and watch Michael Moore's 'Bowling For Columbine' sometime.

America is the most heavily armed society in the world, over 80 million people own guns and how many of those are multiple gun owners? (can you imagine trying to rid the country of that many guns) if owning a gun brought down gun crime then the USA should really be clear of all gun crime, the argument doesn't wash.

Greg,
Reference the armed guard on every gate, these shootings are not that regular so how long before complacency sets in and taking them by surprise would be a cinch, they would just be one of the statistics.

Andy

 

[MIGNAL]

Those places that Roger cited have populations that are less than 30,000. Dangerous to form any conclusions from such small samples.
So there are parts of the world that have greater gun homicides than the US? Hardly something to write home about. Nice to know that the UK with such strong gun control has one of the lowest gun homicides in the world.

 

[monkeybiter]

they want a gun so they can go out and shoot something that bleeds and dies, it has everything to do with the mentality of the people who own a gun

Andy

I'm not quite clear if you're referring to Americans or all shooters. Should I feel shocked at the generalisation or insulted ?

 

[Jacob]

they want a gun so they can go out and shoot something that bleeds and dies, it has everything to do with the mentality of the people who own a gun

Andy

I'm not quite clear if you're referring to Americans or all shooters. Should I feel shocked at the generalisation or insulted ?

All shooters obviously. Nobody wants them. They play with tools which are designed for one thing only i.e. killing things (including people).

 

[nanscombe]

I see there are anti gun lobbyists on here.

I don't think the London Olympic team managed to kill anything, as far as I know.

Clay pigeon shooters don't kill anything.

Competitive target shooters don't kill anything.

Hunters should, by rights, only kill to enough to eat.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Just a few random thoughts -
A good quote from Juvenal - "no one ever suddenly became depraved". Didn't anyone notice that the perpetrators of mass murders weren't quite normal before the event? Maybe someone could have done something? (I have no idea what - before I get my head bitten off)
Where I grew up it was perfectly normal for unsupervised ten to twelve year old boys to go hunting with shotguns. No one ever shot anyone, then or for the fifty years since.
I was taught to sharpen a knife when I was eight years old, and I still carry one fifty years later - I've yet to contemplate stabbing someone.

 

[nanscombe]

You're not the only one around who sharpens blades. Do they randomly go out and stab people?

 

[MIGNAL]

History tells us that a knife isn't the weapon of choice when one wants to murder a huge number of people in a very short period of time. Guns are much more effective, especially if readily available to the insane.

 

[Jacob]

You're not the only one around who sharpens blades. Do they randomly go out and stab people?

About as often as people do woodwork with guns.

 

[Jacob]

Just a few random thoughts -
A good quote from Juvenal - "no one ever suddenly became depraved". Didn't anyone notice that the perpetrators of mass murders weren't quite normal before the event? Maybe someone could have done something? (I have no idea what - before I get my head bitten off)

The 'what' is really easy - restrict access to one of the most popular means of committing mass murder i.e. guns.
If people were fiddling about with guillotines, scaffolds etc, as a 'hobby', this also would be a cause for alarm, and possibly action.

 

[WandrinAndy]

I see the compliant UK majority is happily regurgitating the arguments previously fed to them by the anti-gun fascists.

This majority is so incredibly well brain-washed by the media/politicians in this country that they don't even know it.

At least the Yanks still have freedom to arm themselves.... and more importantly FREE SPEECH.

 

[monkeybiter]

The 'what' is really easy - restrict access to one of the most popular means of committing mass murder i.e. guns.

I think most people agree with that, certainly most shooters do. I assume you know the difference between 'restrict' and 'ban'.

If people were fiddling about with guillotines, scaffolds etc, as a 'hobby', this also would be a cause for alarm, and possibly action.

Interesting way of thinking. Not to worry, you've still got your woodworking abilities.