Garden Workshop

[HRRLutherie]

Hi all

I've been dabbling with woodworking for the past few years, doing it when and where I can, but I think that if I'm ever going to progress, I'm going to need a permanent workshop. It's very much so early days, but I was looking at getting an 8x10 shed and propping it up on a self constructed wooden base spiked into the ground. I might be able to go to 12x10.

The questions:

1. Would a standard shed (such as this http://www.gardenbuildingsdirect.co...-10-Gable-Lincoln-Tongue-and-Groove-Apex-Shed) be substantial enough for a workshop. I would add insulation and moisture protector stuff and put it behind an MDF/Ply wall
2. Can a fully stocked workshop be supported on a timber frame. At the corners, I would cut right angled steel into a spike and shim would underneath, as it would be on a slope
3. If raised enough, could I avoid rotting and water damage from the ground. I wouldn't be able to lay out concrete as it has to be fairly non-permanent
4. Would guttering be necessary?
5. If the insulation etc. was done properly, would high moisture levels be a problem?

Thanks in Advance

 

[HRRLutherie]

Anybody?

 

[Benchwayze]

Judging from the guy in the pic, (Unless it's a bad Photoshop effort) the eaves are a bit low. And as your workbench would likey be up against those windows, you will suffer from lack of head-room. No problem if you are always aware of it, but if you forget! Ouch!
Would also need lining out, and insulating to make a good job, and if the frames are the usual 30mm you might want to beef those up to 50 or 60mm .

But it's a start. I worked in worse in the 60s!
Certainly lift it off the ground of course.

Can't be any more help I fear.

regards
John

 

[dazzer]

It all depends on what you want to do in the workshop - if you need machinery, saws, spindle molders, router tables, planers - sufacer or thicknesser, lathes you will find that the place will fill up quite quickly!

By your forum name it looks like you are going to build instruments which might indicate that you dont need lots of machinery.
I build guitars and have a workshop 20' x 8' - I also have machinery if I need to build anything else and its pretty cramped in my place.

I have a jet sander 16" -32" for doing tops and backs and this takes up quite a bit of space. Also I make forms for different types of guitars and use most of my wall space for storage.
Also I have to store quite a bit of timber which is mostly under a 10' bench, but also is stacked on wall storage.

I have a couple of benches one for my lathe another for gluing on and my main bench which has my tools in racks and vice.

I've insulated my workshop but the humidity is still either high or low so I bought a humidifer to control this - it has a hose fitting so it runs continually.
If your are building instruments then humditiy need to be between 45% -50% - your tops and backs need to be acclimatized before you use them.

A timber support would be fine - many old houses use it - you would need to decide what size would be suitable - also you need to think voids if you are using just an outside frame as there would be no support for most of the floor - you could use stone chippings to fill inside the frame as you could remove this if you need to move the shed.

Guttering you can use it as it helps, but if your base has gravel around the outside then this will help with drainage.

This is just my take on things and other folk on the forum can also help you out on the way to go

All the best
Dave

 

[HRRLutherie]

What about this?

http://www.buyshedsdirect.co.uk/wooden-shed/pure-sheds/10x8-pure-sheds-standard-workshop

 

[Digit]

1. Would a standard shed (such as this http://www.gardenbuildingsdirect.co.uk/ ... -Apex-Shed) be substantial enough for a workshop. I would add insulation and moisture protector stuff and put it behind an MDF/Ply wall
2. Can a fully stocked workshop be supported on a timber frame. At the corners, I would cut right angled steel into a spike and shim would underneath, as it would be on a slope
3. If raised enough, could I avoid rotting and water damage from the ground. I wouldn't be able to lay out concrete as it has to be fairly non-permanent
4. Would guttering be necessary?
5. If the insulation etc. was done properly, would high moisture levels be a problem?

Hi, right, question one.
Personally, based on experience I wouldn't touch a commercial 'shed.' Generally the structure is unsuitable for insulation without increasing the depth of the void necessary to take it. Bit like building a shed inside a shed.
2 Yes. Mine stands on concrete blocks cemented to concrete 'spots' then levelled with packings.
3 Yes. Simply allow for air circulation underneath, that's how houses were constructed for many years.
4 Not if the eaves extend far enough.
5 No.
Returning to question one. Not knowing what equipment you have is a problem, but if you have a circular saw or chop saw you can build a much better quality, and cheaper, than a commercial.

Roy.

 

[Woodchips2]

What about this?

http://www.buyshedsdirect.co.uk/wooden-shed/pure-sheds/10x8-pure-sheds-standard-workshop

The framing looks a bit on the light side at 45x28mm. Could flex a bit in windy weather and makes it a bit trickier to line. May be worth looking locally for a shed manufacturer that will build to suit your needs rather than catering for the mass market. I bought a shed off a local chap who gave you the basic spec but you could then alter to suit your needs eg size and position of doors and windows, alternative claddings, different roof coverings etc.

Regards Keith

 

[Digit]

An example HRR. I built my workshop 5 yrs ago, it measures 16ft X 8ft, windows all along one side, felted roof and constructed of 3 X 2 framing with feather edged cladding. Cost? £400.
Electrics etc extra BTW.

Roy.

 

[jack55]

Hi, at that price for that size I would build it myself. Its hard to retrofit a membrane between the cladding and insulation. If you insulate the roof you should have an air gap above the insulation of at least 50mm. You can as some suggested earlier stand it on concrete blocks I have done a couple like that. If you build it yourself you can also fit it so there's an air gap between the cladding and the insulation on the walls.

 

[Digit]

At that size putting up the basic structure, including leveling the floor took about a week with my wife helping. Ok, we are retired, but my wife suffers from arthritis and at that time I was suffering the effects of cancer treatment so a resonably fit and healthy chap working evenings and week ends should be able to do the same.
One point though, if you have a table saw, for example, get it in before you erect all four walls! :lol:

Roy.

 

[HRRLutherie]

Thanks for all the advice!

I may think about building my own. The problem is, I have no machinery whatsoever with which to build it. I really do only have a handful of tools, and, when I take into account the tools necessary for construction, I'm running into £1000+ territory. I've looked at rental, but at something like a mitre saw costs £40+ for one day! I'll look into, but at the moment (especially considering my skill level), it's not looking feasible (unless you can convince me otherwise!). The thing that really eludes me is putting the roof on. The floor and walls don't look too bad, but I could see the roof irritating me. Would I be correct in assuming a pent roof would be easier?

Again, thanks for all the comments

 

[Thomas Hayman]

Whilst it would take longer it's certainly possible with only basic hand tools. A large framing square to get everything plumb then a saw and hammer are more or less all you would need. Power tools just speed things up a little, sometimes!

 

[Digit]

All you need is a chop saw to make the framework and cut the cladding, and assuming OSB floor and roof, either a decent hand saw or small circular saw.
Even if you buy a ready made shed you will require the same tools to produce the inner framework and cladding, or as Hayman states, a little longer with hand tools.

Roy.

 

[HRRLutherie]

I'll give it a good think. Anyone know where I can find some plans?

 

[Digit]

Nope! But the first step is to decide on the size. Properly supported 18mm OSB will produce the floor and for economy it is best to make the floor in units of boards, hence my shop size of 16ft X 8ft, the framework can then be built on that deck. A sloping roof is easier and cheaper than a pitched roof.
Working from sheet material sizes should pretty much design it for you, there are numerous examples in the PROJECTS threads.

Roy.

 

[Hardy Milts]

I was in similar position a few years ago and decided on one of the galvanised sheet steel sheds (the 3m x 4m version of these: -- won't let me post a link so search for Yardmaster-SL-Shiplap-Metal-Shed --)

I built it on a wood base made from 2x4 treated timber supported on blocks with a T&G floor. I lined it with 25mm polystyrene and 12mm chipboard. I also fixed shuttering ply to a wooden frame right across the door end, and made new doors from ply (the doors that come with these sheds are very flimsy and fixings are a joke)

It's been up about seven years and still looks good; totally maintenance free. Has a sort of guttering built in and roof lights. Height is perfect - 2.5m at the apex so satisfies planning and the shallow pitch means you can still stand at the eaves.

Bad points are mainly the fiddly build - it took me a whole week working on my own to put up the shell and another three days lining it and building the doors. Also you have to line ALL the metal bits, otherwise you get condensation dripping off in cold weather (I used bubble wrap for the roof lights - actually if you go down this route I can tell you how I solved quite a few problems with the build). It's also noisy inside when it rains.

Good way to get a waterproof shell with a reasonably conventional outside appearance (ie not the eyesore I probably would have produced building it myself from scratch!)

 

[HRRLutherie]

I considered that, but hoemdo you insulate it?

 

[RogerBoyle]

An example HRR. I built my workshop 5 yrs ago, it measures 16ft X 8ft, windows all along one side, felted roof and constructed of 3 X 2 framing with feather edged cladding. Cost? £400.
Electrics etc extra BTW.

Roy.

Including floor and roofing materials :shock: :shock: :shock:

Where did you buy the timber and materials ????

I've built many sheds/workshops etc (call them what you will) most around the size that you have mentioned and excluding electrics but including double glazing the cheapest that i managed to buy all the materials for is £1050:00 and that is with Trade Discount

 

[Digit]

Local suppliers.

Roy.

 

[Hardy Milts]

I considered that, but hoemdo you insulate it?

The steel panels are screwed into vertical U-section pieces about 25mm wide. I replaced the screws with longer ones and fitted treated timber battens into the U, so that the screws went through into the timber. Then I put 25mm polystyrene sheet between the battens and screwed 12mm chipboard to the battens to cover the polystyrene. I left the polystyrene uncovered on the roof - always planned to line with hardboard but never got round to it. There are three metal 'beams' to support the roof and these were covered with pipe insulation, split and pushed over the exposed metal. I found Wickes cheapest at the time for materials (cheaper than local supplier sadly)

It stays warm with a small convection heater even when there's snow on the roof. With hindsight I'd have insulated the floor too because it does get draughty round the ankles when it's very cold.